KNHav's Waterfall
Yes there is proof.
Its called beyond a reasonable doubt. We try thousands of cases per day based on innocent or guilty beyond a " reasonable doubt"
I have evidence piled high that makes it proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Bible were on trial it would be guilty of being true beyond a reasonable doubt.
God wouldn't be a fair judicial judge if He hid the evidence and displayed unconfirmed testimony. Your testimony if from God would be confirmed by Him.
Just as He confirmed who Jesus was then. If He does not bear witness, then the testimony is false.
The Word Spirit and Father are a cord of three strands that cant be broken. A kingdom divided can't stand.
Its not the work of God to deceive, His light reveals.
He is judicial. In His courtroom He provides abundant evidence and testimony and witness. The truth is confirmed always! Witness confirming every fact.
I can that look at facts when discussing evolution, on which you have a credible degree of facts at the core of your foundation.
So then I ask in your facts of evolution can we find a Divine Intruder?
Whereas you dismiss facts of a Book based on unfactual and falsified information, and there isn't even a discussion to have beyond that because at the core foundation you accept false information, so when discussing your objection to the Divine Intruder in the study of History, your mythological falsified facts won' t allow a basic foundation of facts at minimum to build on.
So how credible is the facts you conclude against the Bible? a stance in opposition to the faith of others. Since your foundation of facts is piled up in inaccuracies and truely "myths" since they are based on untruths, isn't that what myths are?
So isn't it ironic to build a case on inaccuracies, then use inaccuracies to conclude a lack of credibilty, by which concluding what is myth?
The outcome of conclusion should at minimum be factual with accuracies to hold up at least it's foundation, especially if dismissing basic credibility of what faith is built on in the first place.
Skeptic scrutiny is not credible if you are blindly or conveniently accepting inaccuracies to dismiss accuracies, where by doing you dismiss faith by a foundation of inaccuracies.
Then let me tell you my experience of faith. Because I am an eyewitness of that. And its real, and I'm convinced.
My faith isn't based on a mental acknowledgement of a faith that I hope exists.
I have become convinced of faith by both reason and experience. And in understanding I see clearly, and
in my understanding I am convinced.
I would think it silly to deny your way in the world based on Hell or judgement, especially if you are NOT convinced of God, or if Hell or Heaven exists.
That's like saying Buy a wedding dress, rent the hall, and pay the caterer, even though you don't have a Bride, or Groom, or engagement, or even dating someone yet!
Jesus said count the cost! He actually wants us to be convinced of our decision to follow Him, and He wants us to go in to this relationship with Him, knowing we can pay the cost, knowing its worth it, and willing to pay the cost.
And no one does that unless their convinced. So Jesus says, I want you to be convinced, because your commitment to Me needs to be on solid ground! - wise man builds a house compared to the idiot that builds a house - both go through the storm, idiots house falls, the one who is solid is convinced and holds up through the storms.
The Rich Young Ruler WANTED to follow Jesus, He even agreed with His commandments! But Jesus says, cool you are almost there, one more thing .... the Rich Young Ruler wouldn't have worked out well, at least not making that commitment on that day, why?
Jesus didn't run after him and when the disciples were like Hey Jesus, this is bad for the saving business, no one will be saved if you keep that up! He taught them then, what is needed to make a child of Light, where your heart is, there is your treasure.
And He said people need to understand the cost, for some the cost may be someone, to others something, whatever you love He knows the heart ... Abraham loved Isaac, yet by his famous test, God said, do you love your Son more than Me?
And Abraham, you can imagine how distraught the scene was, and Abraham's grief leading up to that moment, God says pass! He counted the cost and was willing to pay every last penny he had serving God. Was he convinced? Or was his faith a guess?
So I never said this argument. I said count the cost, and be convinced. I showed you every reason to believe, and I added a very honest believable and relatable set of videos to satisfy your intellect. I showed you God's Word, confirming God's Word.
I showed you His character and sensibly showed you why darkness can't stand. And why the world's Woes have grown in the darkness of Satan's seed.
And I gave you my experience, which is wonderfully wise when I was a dumb ass 5 year old, 2nd grader, and and a merging rebel. And some other fabulous encounters that were realistic, without over spiritualizing every pee and poop I ever experienced.
I think people think faith is a guess. A lucky guess! We HOPE we are right, well that's not good enough!
That's actually not what faith is at all.
Faith is being CONVINCED of things not seen!
Without faith that is CONVINCED, it is impossible to please God!
Hebrews 11
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
2 For by it the men of old gained approval.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. ...
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Romans 8: 37-39
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There are numerous calculations and measurements in the Bible from specific measurements in building designs instructed by God and in dates and times found the Bible.
Well I dont know why God put it there. Id imagine the book is so full of knowledge and wisdom and understanding that on one side its a confirmation that there is an outside influence and showing something that specific.
Even complete to the 4th decimal place in equations beyond the writers knowledge and ability. So it was a purposeful design to authenticate it. Or sign it as authored by more than the men that physically penned it.
Also God confounds the wise and mocks fools. So when the book is opened the foolishness of academia that denied God and caused multitudes to stumble and not seek God. When it is unrolled it will both mock and judge them. The blood of those they cause to stumble will be on their hands.
As far as the math itself, Im not a mathematician, so I can only think of known application as a lay person. Pi is measurements of a circle, inside out, and across etc...
pi appears in all sorts of calculations for physics, engineering, electrical systems.
The double-helix is DNA revolves around pi. Pi is in the rainbow, the pupil of the eye, and when a raindrop falls into water pi emerges in the spreading rings. It appears in colors and in music. It is also used in probability and statistics.
So I think the placement is not a calculation as in a word problem. But all incompassing of God's creation, intervention, judgement, and salvation. He brings creation full circle from creation to fall to our redemption.
Fullness of His dwelling. Complete measurement. God uses math and measurements within the scriptures also. Like measurements of the Noahs Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. And all kinds of measurements. So measurements and math are not foriegn to the actual reading of the written text.
So hidden in verse 1 of chapter 1 in Genesis and In John 1: 1 is profound and absolute design written by more than the pen of men!!
Gen 6 - Ark Measurements
14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.
17 Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
Romans 8
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And "e" found in John 1: 1 Would be measurements of exponential growth. Which is what happened bt the Jews initially rejecting the Messiah.
Causing it to go out to the Gentiles. But also prophesied to come full circle, and lift the veil. To make a round trip so to speak, to reveal to the Jews also so in the end they also see the Messiah as who He is, Jesus.
Completing His creation full circle! And His salvation saves exponentially.
In Bible Codes, some are far out and take it far out. But some are a signature of Divine Authorship. And these ones are definitely signatures as if He etched His Word with His own hand.
Pi found in Genesis 1: 1 and adv math e found in John 1: 1.
These aren't spread out, found in difficulty, and in need of twisting. These two adv math codes are found, each found using within one verse. And each one found separately in chapter one of two seperate books, written in two separate millennials, in written in two separate languages. And the nature of interpretation works with what is there from the ancient text.
And the odds of them occurring at any point at all within all 66 books of the Bible is in probabilities of unreasonable proportions.
What do you think is the probability of a few of these together found coded in the Bible? If just musing at first glance, wouldn't you say, " no way?" I'm not even saying in the whole Bible. What is the probability all these are found in only six books out if 66?
As for me, I dont think a calculation is needed to tell me that is an unreasonable probability in calculations of a snowflakes chance in Hell!
Even crazier, pi and e are coded in two different languages, Hebrew for Jews and Greek was a time period of the Gospel's progression out to the Gentiles.
And both verses state "In the beginning," so they each speak of a time period of Creation and in Jesus as the Creator. And advanced math equations not known yet for 1000s of years to come.
In Genesis 1: 1 pi equation is encoded, in creation of the world and universe and in God stitching prophesy into appointed times to bring Creation full circle.
And in John 1: 1 in Greek while the Gospel is propelled out to the Gentiles, you find in verse one the equation for e, which is compound interest, multiplying exponentially.
So even the equations found communicate the purpose of the event. And even the Bible Author God, divided these times by purpose as shown in the 1st verses of these two books, Genesis and John. Then to add to this timetables for dating history is BC and AD.
So the Bible notes each beginning with a math equation. Then took the division of time line for dating history. And then add TORH TORH YHWY HROT HROT in the beginning of each of the five books of the Bible at intervals of Bible numbers of importance in the written text throughout every book of seven and forty-nine .
These singuarly are a stretch against reasonable probability, but for all to be right there on the top, not buried or crazy, together all these are proof of God and His Word. All of these together are impossible odds without Divine Authorship. Together these are more than just an oooh wow, these are against odds of probabilities that are not even be conceivable.
Now in contradiction beween the improbability of two faiths.
A comparison between Christianity and Evolution as ecplanation of Creation.
So on one hand, Evolutionism states strands of DNA self assembled and mutated and against all odds of occurance and against all odds of science principles and without any evidence of a physical example in front of our eyes, we are told to believe it. And that it is factual.
Then you take just these few pieces of many in evidence, tangible and available to view in everyone's individual hands. With everyone having the ability to test it, and even count out the codes for themselves, and literally proving itself in person from the beginning and in person showing agsinst all odds He not only created, but He put it in writing against all odds to prove it!
You have to be evil or an idiot to at least not step back and say there is more to God and the Bible than I currently think. Maybe I should look further!
There are numerous calculations and measurements in the Bible from specific measurements in building designs instructed by God and in dates and times found the Bible.
Well I dont know why God put it there. Id imagine the book is so full of knowledge and wisdom and understanding that on one side its a confirmation that there is an outside influence and showing something that specific.
Even complete to the 4th decimal place in equations beyond the writers knowledge and ability. So it was a purposeful design to authenticate it. Or sign it as authored by more than the men that physically penned it.
Also God confounds the wise and mocks fools. So when the book is opened the foolishness of academia that denied God and caused multitudes to stumble and not seek God. When it is unrolled it will both mock and judge them. The blood of those they cause to stumble will be on their hands.
As far as the math itself, Im not a mathematician, so I can only think of known application as a lay person. Pi is measurements of a circle, inside out, and across etc...
pi appears in all sorts of calculations for physics, engineering, electrical systems.
The double-helix is DNA revolves around pi. Pi is in the rainbow, the pupil of the eye, and when a raindrop falls into water pi emerges in the spreading rings. It appears in colors and in music. It is also used in probability and statistics.
So I think the placement is not a calculation as in a word problem. But all incompassing of God's creation, intervention, judgement, and salvation. He brings creation full circle from creation to fall to our redemption.
Fullness of His dwelling. Complete measurement. God uses math and measurements within the scriptures also. Like measurements of the Noahs Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. And all kinds of measurements. So measurements and math are not foriegn to the actual reading of the written text.
So hidden in verse 1 of chapter 1 in Genesis and In John 1: 1 is profound and absolute design written by more than the pen of men!!
Gen 6 - Ark Measurements
14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.
17 Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
Romans 8
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And "e" found in John 1: 1 Would be measurements of exponential growth. Which is what happened bt the Jews initially rejecting the Messiah.
Causing it to go out to the Gentiles. But also prophesied to come full circle, and lift the veil. To make a round trip so to speak, to reveal to the Jews also so in the end they also see the Messiah as who He is, Jesus.
Completing His creation full circle! And His salvation saves exponentially.
In Bible Codes, some are far out and take it far out. But some are a signature of Divine Authorship. And these ones are definitely signatures as if He etched His Word with His own hand.
Pi found in Genesis 1: 1 and adv math e found in John 1: 1.
These aren't spread out, found in difficulty, and in need of twisting. These two adv math codes are found, each found using within one verse. And each one found separately in chapter one of two seperate books, written in two separate millennials, in written in two separate languages. And the nature of interpretation works with what is there from the ancient text.
And the odds of them occurring at any point at all within all 66 books of the Bible is in probabilities of unreasonable proportions.
What do you think is the probability of a few of these together found coded in the Bible? If just musing at first glance, wouldn't you say, " no way?" I'm not even saying in the whole Bible. What is the probability all these are found in only six books out if 66?
As for me, I dont think a calculation is needed to tell me that is an unreasonable probability in calculations of a snowflakes chance in Hell!
Even crazier, pi and e are coded in two different languages, Hebrew for Jews and Greek was a time period of the Gospel's progression out to the Gentiles.
And both verses state "In the beginning," so they each speak of a time period of Creation and in Jesus as the Creator. And advanced math equations not known yet for 1000s of years to come.
In Genesis 1: 1 pi equation is encoded, in creation of the world and universe and in God stitching prophesy into appointed times to bring Creation full circle.
And in John 1: 1 in Greek while the Gospel is propelled out to the Gentiles, you find in verse one the equation for e, which is compound interest, multiplying exponentially.
So even the equations found communicate the purpose of the event. And even the Bible Author God, divided these times by purpose as shown in the 1st verses of these two books, Genesis and John. Then to add to this timetables for dating history is BC and AD.
So the Bible notes each beginning with a math equation. Then took the division of time line for dating history. And then add TORH TORH YHWY HROT HROT in the beginning of each of the five books of the Bible at intervals of Bible numbers of importance in the written text throughout every book of seven and forty-nine .
These singuarly are a stretch against reasonable probability, but for all to be right there on the top, not buried or crazy, together all these are proof of God and His Word. All of these together are impossible odds without Divine Authorship. Together these are more than just an oooh wow, these are against odds of probabilities that are not even be conceivable.
Now in contradiction beween the improbability of two faiths.
A comparison between Christianity and Evolution as ecplanation of Creation.
So on one hand, Evolutionism states strands of DNA self assembled and mutated and against all odds of occurance and against all odds of science principles and without any evidence of a physical example in front of our eyes, we are told to believe it. And that it is factual.
Then you take just these few pieces of many in evidence, tangible and available to view in everyone's individual hands. With everyone having the ability to test it, and even count out the codes for themselves, and literally proving itself in person from the beginning and in person showing agsinst all odds He not only created, but He put it in writing against all odds to prove it!
You have to be evil or an idiot to at least not step back and say there is more to God and the Bible than I currently think. Maybe I should look further!
A message from the heart to debaters who fight in favor of evolution. Forst of all for the purpose of debate, clarity of terms is important.
Adaptation is not evolution no matter how you define it. The inclusive definition needs to be removed for the origin debate. So we are clear we are speaking from onset!
Adaptation takes a formed life form and adapts within its own fully formed makeup. It doesnt adapt by becoming a different creature.
Evolution defined as used to describe the establishment of life and nature as we sknow it is not adaptation. As a term used in the debate of Creator vs self creation of evolution.
So please stick to the definition. Adaptation is subtle. Evolution is creative in a foundational sense
Adaptation would be darkening of pigmentstion or lengthening a nose to adapt to changing atmosphere. But there is no drastic changes needed for evolution.
I dont argue and poke fun out of a dislike for you. I am hoping at some point you will question reasonably and logically some of the things you accepy as truth and isnt founded in science or logic or reasoning.
I am not being mean or cruel, I'm challenging you for a greater purpose, to question and weigh reasonably.
Like evolution starts aftwr life forms are already in process and builds on it, balancing nature in the process to foster the evolving life forms and to support its progressive action to its current presentation.
Yet when proof of the Bible has connections confirmed, in front of your face, it is denied.
Arent these connections similar. Yet at least with the Bible evidence is tangable and visible, and not just assumptive, as seen in the foundation of the biginning of life, the first life form that assembled itself to start with, then the balancing act needed to progress from the beginning.
Neither of these at the foundation are logical, no matter what biology connects similarities, and no matter what adaptations we see after the fact of a living thing at its completion.
There is only evidence of biological simillarites. Not sound science in the beginning of the first formed living thing. Nor in the balance required beyond that, with entropy working against it from the creation of the first cell, and naturally beyond that!
Creatures with eyes have eye genes. But its a big jump to then say life formed and stabilized out of nonliving matter.
Its a religion of idiots.
Its the greatest insult to the Creator. The actual creator.
Man being a god created himself out of a process from nothing.
Man breathed life into himself out of evolving from a combination of dead matter.
Not even another god, a nothing god ... the earth was void, unformed, darkness over the deep. Into nothing He brought forth life, into chaos He established the balance for life to continue.
And evolution is the god nothing. The self god, nature and man created self by selection of the best. The self made man, evolved from nothing.
.
If God exists, and His Word is credible, then yes, I wouldn't have a reason not to.
I don't know that we need to explain everything under the sun to establish if at the very least the Bible is credible in historical docomentation and pre-written history as documentation.
If all other things are accurate and truthful then it's reasonable to Consider Adam is also possibly just as credible.
This is entertaining
Weigh the evidence!
My take on immorality is Eternal Life.
What is Light?
Can it be in three time periods at the same time?
Is there a place in the speed of light where time stands still?
Is God known as Light?
Does He give Eternal Life?
Did anyone writing the Bible understand the speed of light, or was that a scientific realization of modern day?
Then how or why would light and eternal life and Omnipresence meaning every where at once and Omniscience, knowing all things past present and future, why do you think light and these characteristics of the person who IS Light would somehow appear together, as characteristics found in God, who is The Light?
Again did these ancient writers understand the science of Light?
Reasonable doubt- this is credible evidence
It is not likely and is not usual - as a matter of fact it is HIGHLY unlikely and EXTREMELY unusual!!
Here is part of the historical event of Steven's Martyrdom
Notice his stoners coats were laid at Saul's feet.
Saul after murdering Christiand, has an unusual transformation and personally experienced an encounter with the Risen Jesus.
Saul goes from killing them to the greatest winner of souls. And by those actions fullfills PROPHESY!! And his dramatic conversion pushes the gospel out from his own countrymen to Gentiles, (other Nation other than Israel) and is well know even from those he was in league with while severely persecuting Christians.
Matt 24
14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Isaiah 11
10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious."
.
So like it, or not this IS reasonable evidence, and along with 2000 prophesies that have already been fulfilled in detail!
With only 500 to go, and some of those are in process!
Evidence FOR GOD is mounting!!!
Stephen was martyred as murders placed their coats at Saul's feet.
SAUL Later became PAUL, and went on to become a valiant Appostle of the faith he was a murderer in war against Christians!
What changed?
Acts 7
51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. 52 Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; 53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”
54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. 55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. 58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.
Answer 1 - God? Your answer is a cop out, convenient answer, almost playing it safe - if there were such a thing. It's a response to a question that is answered without effort to seek an answer.
Answer 2 - Jesus? Your answer lacks real consideration and thought.
A forensic atheist decided to take the gospels and any other writings in and out of the Bible to find and expose lies, conspiracies, or whatever was at the bottom of this faith.
Forensic pros look for the lies and inconsistencies in writings, they piece together lies, and conspiracies through comparing documents, writing styles, and types of phrases or words used, and in comparing records, but with a specific focus to find and point out any falsified information.
A devout atheist, even raised as atheist, after looking at the gospels determined from the study, that without a doubt, the 4 gospels, are 4 individual writers, who all witnessed and recorded the same things as in a manner of one writing a truthful account by eye witness, and in clear consistet accounts from their personal experiences and memories.
Not just 1 small chapter, these accounts are chapters long of their eyewitness accounts. Details so impressive, they couldnt forget.
All the teachings and parables and miracles, they each saw and heard, and had witnessed themselves over a 3.5 year time period.
The previous atheist forensic said, Even the inconsistencies that do exist in the writings are actually affirmative indicators of the accounts are legitimate truthful documentations.
One example - Where one writer gives an account such as "the soldiers were slapping Jesus, saying tell us prophet, who just slapped you" one of the other gospel writers said the same exact story, but he added they blindfolded Jesus, and we're slapping Him, saying tell prophet who just slapped you"
As a forensic, he said those types of inconsistencies are actually truth indicators. They are accidental confirmations that the authors are at the same event, explaining the same details, but from different prespective and personalities. The 4 gospels, even if they were written right next to each other, the forensic testimony would be a testimony establishing the writers were being truthful, and were not inventing conspiracies or lieing.
But they werent even written next to each other, or even in the same years. Yet they all had the same experiences.
The letters, and other historical findings from the time period, are all saying the same things, indisputable evidence, that would literally hold up in any of todays court trials as evidence of the truthful documentations of all 4 accounts.
You would have to dismiss the evidence, as though it didn't exist
and then literally decieve yourself to think he was merely just a charismatic man. You would have to dismiss Jesus and all the facts and accounts surrounding Him, and dismiss all the writers along with their detailed eye witness accounts, and dismiss either the courage or insanity of the early Church who faced extremes in persecution, and also all the others in every age that followed them to also face the same, and also dismiss all the prophets, and all their detailed writings that told of Jesus' coming!
As far as through a Virgin, He is God!
! Historians say according to all items and writings found, that Jesus truely DID live during the time followers said He lived,
AND also He was Crucified.
! There was an intensity of unreasonable growth during extreme hostilities.
! Islam grew through its followers causing extremes to others and making converts by force, as those converted caved in easily under extremes of force, with numbers, and the force behind their movement gaining in strength!
But that's not the case in the early Church of Jesus' followers. It's the opposite, they were non-violent passevist, and adversity began when they were small, yet they grew in numbers anyway!
! There were a large number of prophetic "future tellers" concerning a someone coming that looks just like the person Jesus, with details of events He would have actually HAD to be God to coordinate, unless the All the Pharisees, Pilot, and Herod also were in on the conspiracy!?!?
! Faith in this charismatic but ordinary man grew so big in spite of extremes faced by everyday people in persecutions, that
All of Time and All of History is defined by His Birth! A.D. and B.C.
These where several over 4000 years. Who confirmed incredible details that they all got right. 100 % accuracy! If we had a psychic like that, she'd be rolling in dough in just a few short years, everyone would pay to know tomorrow, and a premium would be paid for such accuracy!
2nd You have the Eye Witnesses,
If we take 4 conspirators, and they can be as smart as Harvard graduates, or as dumb as punks ...
With interagationd and investigations, each of their stories would show mis-fitting details and they would quickly and EASILY fall apart.
Even in the conveniences of communication of our present day, regardless if conspirators practice, plan, and coordinate every alibi and lieing detail, forensics and investigators will almost always still break through it all, and will almost always find the little treads, that when pulled, unravel their spun stories.
Between just 2 people, or even just 1 person lies trip when looked at with scrutiny! If for just 2 people, or even just 1, keeping a lie is difficult, then how about 4, or 12 people?
How about 100's of people keeping the lies and the same stories?
Many of the first followers were people who where 1st hand eye witnesses.
Then add the pressures from intese persecutions, a constant threat and weight around their necks meant to crush and remove these "untrue stories." While Christians lived everyday life in these violent environments in the aftermath of the Crucifixion (and also the Resurrection.) And continued against them over many generations.
And you further decrease any ability for Christianity to have progressed beyond this 1st crew.
Historically factual accounts of loyalty are recorded among 1,000,000's of meek people, not pumped up terrorists infused with radical ideas of hate and vengeance, Not testosterone happy coloseum fighters. Not people trained for battle or engaged in wars. Mild mannered fathers and mothers, people of every age, from every walk of life. The basic fishermen, tradesmen, bakers, even tax collectors. Everyday people, throughout every part of those societies.
Under extreme pressures, MAYBE a few would have been able to persevere, and willingly become lion food rather than deny their faith in Jesus, but Jesus had to be pretty charismatic for all those people to follow Him to those horrific deaths.
Heck, I think being blown up by suicide vest, knowing it will be over in just a few seconds is actually a pretty cowardice martyrdom in comparison to some martyrdoms they endured in taking a stand for something as silly as faith in just a man any man! No matter how cool He was!
But, we are talking about many, many, many everyday people, who were living simple everyday lives, to become so loyal to faith in Jesus and for the things they learned and witnessed. To the degree they chose not to deny the Lord Jesus regardless of facing severe extremes in affliction, loss of their loved ones, loss of everything, imprisonment, unimaginable pains of torture, stoning, fed to lions, beheadings, and fire and still not change their stories and their faith. And still "hold on to their conspiracies and lies.
We are talking about people, given life choices like deny this whole story and go home and bake bread for you children, or be lion food for all to watch as Lions crush your bones and rip your limbs off!
They tought Jesus was more than just a man, more than even a great man. They died for a man who WAS technically already dead and gone! That is, if there was no Resurrection!
That matters as little as the 7 Days being each 24 hours or
a million years.
If you can't see, no amount of arguing will change that.
The question isn't even relevant
The point is man is in a class of their own!
And there may well have been prehistoric men too.
Satan was cast down with a host of angels
And they may had taken physical bodies at one point.
And honestly, it actually doesn't matter to Faith in God, and the work He is completing here on earth.
If you have an ear you will seek, if not well then the time will be upon us soon, and you will figure it out then.
I am absolutely convinced of God! Not just faith I mean convinced!
The Bible is soooooo brilliant, I'm stunned at its stitching!
When you see it, it makes it extremely clear, yet it uncovers even more mysteries to be sought and found,
God is sooooo huge, and we are sooooo small, smaller than a deer tick!
Just in 1 chapter of Genesis is connections, that these prophets could NOT have done without the most advanced Government or NASA computers known to man! And even then couldn't!
Hear is just 1 set of verses, and I already see it as 5 different ways, telling 5 different things, and this is the depth found throughout the whole entire Bible. There is no doubt that God wrote it, and kept it exactly as He wrote it through every day of 6000 years!
And it all fits with each other, and isnt private interpretation.
Its on purpose to show many different things from God to His people, at different times throughout all history and future.
His Word is as Omnipotent as He is Omnipotent!
That's why in John 1 John says about "The Word"
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Doesn't this "sound" like Genesis?!?
It would take Eternity to even uncover just a portion of it, that's the crazy depth and accuracy of God, His design, His Prophesy, His Plan, His Completion!
See if you can grasp any of "It's Evolution" maybe He will let you see enough to change the direction of your heart. To atleast consider this might be more than a book.
I felt led to journal, and take apart a few verses, here is just 1 section in Genesis 1. And here is outcome so far just focused just for day 3.
Day 3 / has - 3 sections / 6 - points are in each section, except there are 7 points in the 3rd section.
6 points / 6 points/then last section has 7 points
Then God uses words like "and it was so" "He named it" and "God saw it was good" a day, a second day, a third day .... etc.
These are all defining of things like specific people, groups of people, times, events, prophesies. They are not only directing us to be people in His Image, but are directing us trough 6000 years of time!
Day 3, journal by each section, this one day has 3 specific sections.
* Then take Matt 13 and do the same. - It looks like Jesus is explaining somethings in multiple ways in just 1 parable.
Seed - fruit - are characteristics - like good fruit - love joy peace patience .... and bad fruit envy, hate, bitterness, lust ....
BUT also Seed against Seed as told in The fall in the garden, enmity between Serpent and the woman, and between serpents seed and the woman's seed, then right away Cain Kills Abel, and we see baby boys killed in Egypt as Moses escapes in a basket, we see Herod kill boys in Bethlehem, while God sends Jesus to hide for a few years in Egypt.
Image of God vs image of Satan .
Then 3rd day - Jesus rose from the dead on the 3rd day ... well we are talking about "A Third Day" So This all the way back to Genesis 1 is telling of Jesus Death and Resurrection!
In John 12 Jesus is preparing for the cross. And AGAIN giving instructions ...
This is how we follow Him into Eternal Life, we go to Salvation through His death on the cross, and His Resurection, ( its the "eye of the needle" It's how we become Born Again.
He says in John 12: 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, (AG)unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
And also Harvest of souls, dividing real teachers from false teachers, and then producing real fruit that is good and ripe for His return - the "Christians" who remain, and unripe bad fruit produced by false teachers who are stumbling blocks.
See Revelations Babylon and the sea ... see in Revelations unripe fruit and winds.
Gen 1 with 6 points in each 3 sections - with last section a 7th point with evening and morning are third day even that is ... a grain of wheat falls to the earth and dies, out of it is a great tree
(as 7th point in the last 1/3) - and then He has another parable about the wheat and the tares!
And if you look at the parable of the sower ...
Jesus says, the harvest ,
"some 30 - some 60 and some 100 fold!"
Or you can read it as 1st section evening 2nd section morning third section "a third day"
I think both ways are 2 messages just in sectioning each section out with evening and morning and one a 3rd day. actually probably 10, 20, or 30.
Now as crazy as this is, I have about 30 scriptures coming to my mind that are connected, just to these few verses describing "1 Day" out of 7 in only 1 chapter of Genesis.
Now you may say, it's easy, they purposely did this.
We are talking about people who wrote in different time periods, often hundreds even thousands of years between them.
Thes words were not always understood by most of the people, they memorized every jot and tittle, but they didnt understand alot of it, otherwise they all would have easily recognized Jesus, and of course not even Judas saw his part in it all!
So these prophets were fed word for word, everything they wrote, and the message in the garden with Adam and Eve, God gave commant to Adam, and He didnt teach Eve correctly because, she added words, to "exactly what God said".
So the big rule!! Was they had to memorize every dot and cross of the T. In every generation, so the message came through EXACTLY as He gave it. Because every thing is so precise, its unbelievable!
Even when I was Journaling, I'm a big short cutter, when hammering out notes. I literally had to write it and number it line upon line, and when I didn't I was brought back to it to rewrite it, then saw the pattern I was meant to see.
So you may think it's nuts, but I know it's not!
Maybe this is for you, or maybe for someone else.
Ha lol
So your asking me what "biological kingdom"
Like that actually matters, really?
Common sense from monkeys to apes to human and from mammals who feed their young with milk.
Do you think an ape is made in the image of God?
The question isn't a science question.
And the answer isn't a biology answer.
Truth of God's Word can't be understood or defined by science, science is too small. Isn't that my point in the arguments?
Look if you can hear you will, if you can't it's because your what God calls so smart its foolishness! If you can't be humble, you can't know the greatest things there are to know.
Snippets from Prove 18
2 A fool does not delight in understanding,
But only in revealing his own mind.
3 When a wicked man comes, contempt also comes,
And with dishonor comes scorn.
4 The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters; ("stumbling blocks" as in Revelations? "The deep" as found in Genesis 1?)
The fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook - ("Living Waters never thirst again" ?)
The mind of the prudent acquires knowledge,
And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge. ("seek you shall find, knock door will be opened" ?)
With the fruit of a man’s mouth his stomach will be satisfied;
He will be satisfied with the product of his lips. ("The mouth speaks, whatever is in the heart" ?)
21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Snippets from Matt 7
13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered
from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears
bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a
bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts
on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for
it had been founded on the rock.
26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
You ignore God! Then you blame Christians on not listening, you can do that all you want, but if you can't hear God's Word it's because you can't hear,
It's not a benefit to anyone to change God's Word in order to tickle people's ears.
As a matter of fact, tickling ears and diluting the truth is a stumbling block, which Jesus say "Woe to you of whom stumbling blocks come, it's better to have a millstone tied to your neck and dumped into the sea."
And in Revelation 18:21
Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
Matthew 18:6
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea
Do you read?
So Creation verses Evolution is a blindness and a distraction to many.
The point is not whether God chose to do it in 24 hours, or millions of years, and even if the Nithilum were civilizations of prehistoric men, God made man in "His image" when He made Adam ...!
That is a story of God's creation of His children ... and setting in motion every detail to be written we ever needed to know to be redeemed, and then changed into a nature of glorified bodies that CAN live in the His holiness and His light, so that we CAN live with Him forever.
While the rest of the world and its inhabitants from the beginning of time who missed out, are woken also to join in for this world's final destruction. ie.. Sheep / goats etc... to never exist again.
You don't understand the Bible because to you it's a sealed book.
Jesus said "ears to hear" "eyes to see"
Its also said in the Old Testament and in writing of letters and Revelations.
Here is just 2 saying it. If you have ears you will hear if not, we can talk till we both die of exhaustion and it won't give you ears!
Luke 8:10
And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.
Isaiah 29
11 The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, “Please read this,” he will say, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the book will be given to the one who [n]is illiterate, saying, “Please read this.” And he will say, “I cannot read.”
You don't understand the Bible because to you it's a sealed book.
Jesus said "ears to hear" "eyes to see"
Its also said in the Old Testament and in writing of letters and Revelations.
Here is just 2 saying it. If you have ears you will hear if not, we can talk till we both die of exhaustion and it won't give you ears!
Luke 8:10
And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.
Isaiah 29
11 The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who [l]is literate, saying, “Please read this,” he will say, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the [m]book will be given to the one who [n]is illiterate, saying, “Please read this.” And he will say, “I cannot read.”
"Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”
Vengeance × 7
Methushael # 5
Then Lamech # 6 Vengence 7 × 10
"The number of a man" # 6 - generation from Cain - who by the way fyi - God put an identifying "mark" on him !!!
Lamech says in a bragging song -
" .... For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me; 24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
In comparison Adam through Seth also had an Enoch # 7 - who was taken by God to a city in Heaven!
Then Methuselah # 8
(root words of name Methu = Death/Selah = Pause or Praise as it is used in Psalms.
Then Lamech # 9
Then Noah #10
"Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”
Vengeance × 7
Methushael # 5
Then Lamech # 6 Vengence 7 × 10
"The number of a man"
Lamech says in a bragging song -
" .... For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me; 24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
In comparison Adam through Seth also had an Enoch # 7 - who was taken by God to a city in Heaven!
Then Methuselah # 8
(root words of name Methu = Death/Selah = Pause or Praise as it is used in Psalms.
Then Lamech # 9
Then Noah #10
Your a blind ding dong!
A donkey! Animals only understand their instincts, you my dear may just be an animal. Cain's line became simply animals.
You answered so quick, that I know you gave 0 thought to understand it.
So the conversation is futile!
If I give you something to think about would you?
Or is your 1st thought how to argue it?
Read it! Then read it again trying to understand it. Because it's actually just a snippet that's pretty mind blowong.
Remember story of Cain and Abel?
How about Isaac and Ishmael?
Here is something not popularly known about Cain and his family tree.
Cain is the (1st generation), and he fathered
Enoch (2nd generation) Cain built a city named after his son Enoch, then Irad (3nd generation), Mehujael (4th generation)
Methushael (5th generation) root words of his name
Methu = Death / Shael = Sheol
Lamech (6th generation) - 6 the number of a man, this maybe a message of insight here!
Especially compared to the geneology of Seth!
Cain murders 1 and lies to God, Lamech murders 2 and brags about it to 2 wives, after he killed a man and a boy in vengeance, while declaring even greater severe vengeance!
Lamech also marries 2 Wives, which is not what God commanded He made them male and female... to become one flesh!
In the geneolgy of Cain, there is an Enoch # 2.
And, there is also an Enoch # 7 in Seth's geneology. - God takes his son # 7 Enoch to Heaven without dieing, while Cain dead in this world names a city after his son Enoch.
(Seth of course is Abel's "replacement" as stated by Eve "since Cain murdered him")
So in the 6th generation of Cain, Lamech the direct son of a man whose name means death-sheol sings praise of murder hear what he says ...
Genesis 4
23 Lamech said to his wives,
“Adah and Zillah,
Listen to my voice,
You wives of Lamech,
Give heed to my speech,
For I have killed a man for wounding me;
And a boy for striking me;
24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
FYI Ishmael wasn't a mistake, he also was born at the
"appointed time"
God say "at the appointed time" over and over and over again, such as in when fulfilled promise to Abraham and Sarah "when" conceived Isaac "at the appointed time" then there is the story to us ... when Abraham was "100 years old" He fathered Isaac ... and "86" When "Ishmael" was born.
Here is a very important prophesy given to Ishmael's "Egyptian" mom "
"Sarai treated her (Hagar) harshly, and she fled from her presence.
7 Now the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.”
10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply
your descendants so that they will be too many to count.”
11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,
“Behold, you are with child,
And you will bear a son;
And you shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.
12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him,
And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”
Does this sound like anything to you???
Umm yeah, it's a prophesy that grows, and is part of Israel's history up till end time prophesies fulfilled in final days.
Now this is a prophesy showing Israel's enemies, and every nation's part in it!
How telling!
Well these specific events and time periods are time setters designed by God "in completeion" of all His work!
And every detail we need to guide us is literally in the Bible everywhere, in everything, every story, every parable!!! Even in geneologies, what I've seen in Genesis from Adam to Noah and through Cain's geneology is end times mindblowong! Along with many other things that I've seen in Genesis.
----------
Jesus was not ever coming on the "2000 year Millenial" like many thought whit hype of computers shutting down etc ... if you remember that hype. (And fyi, I didn't buy into that hype at all!) But now I do see a time that is pretty much a clear "appointed." (believe
Its a time to get His people ready, and a breathing space that many Christians will take as "peace and safety!" While His true people get to work, and this is in about 5 parables Jesus told .... and in prophesies from Genesis to Revelations!
I mean amazing!!
When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!
The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!
Sure and if you understood it you would too.
When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!
The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!
Please read
When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!
The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!
Everyday of creation is a 1000 years of time till He establishes His Kingdom and ushers in His 7th day "rest" as His 1000 year reign, while He establishes New Jerusalem.
It's the time period of letting the earth sit for its day of rest, while His children also rest for 1000 years, before finally bringing His final Kingdom to earth "The New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21.
God say "at the appointed time" over and over and over again, such as in when fulfilled promise to Abraham and Sarah "when" conceived Isaac "at the appointed time" then there is the story to us ... when Abraham was "100 years old" He fathered Isaac ... and "86" When "Ishmael" was born.
Here is a very important prophesy given to Ishmael's "Egyptian" mom "
"Sarai treated her harshly, and she fled from her presence.
7 Now the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.”
10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply
your descendants so that they will be too many to count.”
11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,
“Behold, you are with child,
And you will bear a son;
And you shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.
12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him,
And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”
Does this sound like anything to you???
Umm yeah, it's a prophesy that grows, and is part of Israel's history up till end time prophesies fulfilled in final days.
Now this is a prophesy showing Israel's enemies, and every nation's part in it!
How telling!
Well these specific events and time periods are time setters designed by God "in completeion" of all His work!
And every detail we need to guide us is literally in the Bible everywhere, in everything, every story, every parable!!! Even in geneologies, what I've seen in Genesis from Adam to Noah and through Cain's geneology is end times mindblowong! Along with many other things that I've seen in Genesis.
----------
Jesus was not ever coming on the "2000 year Millenial" like many thought whit hype of computers shutting down etc ... if you remember that hype. (And fyi, I didn't buy into that hype at all!) But now I do see a time that is pretty much a clear "appointed." (believe it or not, Trump is even in there!!)
Its a time to get His people ready, and a breathing space that many Christians will take as "peace and safety!" While His true people get to work, and this is in about 5 parables Jesus told .... and in prophesies from Genesis to Revelations!
I mean amazing!!
And from what I see it was NOT on the 2000 year anniversary of His birth, which was year 2000, (actually year 1996, because historians realized AD and BC are actually off by 4 years - imagine that, God may have purposely allowed this to provide a "delay" - as is mentioned many times throughout parables - "while the master delayed" or
"Bridegroom delayed"
"No man knows hour or day" as Jesus said! - But He pain stakingly did say when we see times and seasons we will KNOW! In other words in Matt 24 He literally giving instructions! Detailing things, where to look, and telling us as time gets near there are appointed times and signs and seasons to understand in the Bible that correlate to what we see in history and current events.
Because the times are literally in there. And as time gets closer ... He is revealing .... and even says "revealing" things would be done at appointed time!
6000 years from Jesus' Death and Resurrection, is the TIME!
Not on the day or hour, but in that time period. We are in the end of day 6!
Every 1000 years is a day!
It's a scripture starement in Peter and also in Psalms! And if your read Ecclesiastical A time foe everything chapter, it shows appointed times, along with its object lesson.
Each 1000 years is a time keeper of events ... from putting Cain and Abel in, to replacing Abel with Seth to the births of Isaac and Ishmael into the world and into the timeline, to prophesying every single thing!
So one thing I see is, the 2000 year anniversary of the 1st Resurrection which is 2029 to 2033 is the approximate date (its a marker, could be before or after, but its around this marker in the prophesy timeline) declaring the final acts of this world, and the fulfilling of the prophesies of the "2nd Resurection"
(So it makes sense that if the last act is like the 1st act which is related in every way, to be a like time of final fulfillment on the Millenials (each 1000 years!)
When he comes with a trumpet raises the dead and transforms the saints living into glorified bodies for the 7th day - 1000 year Millenials reign!!
And it's spelled out! Hidden being revealed now!
Babylon is US. And the kings in Daniel are stages of Us growth to destruction! It correlated to Ezekiel and Revelations and Matt 24 and every where else as threads to see times and purposes!
Ear to hear, eyes to see will be blessed ... everyone else is blinded because its a riddle!
So Creation verses Evolution is a blindness and a distraction to many.
The point is not whether God chose to do it in 24 hours, or millions of years, and even if the Nithilum were civilizations of prehistoric men, God made man in "His image" when He made Adam ...!
That is a story of God's creation of His children ... and setting in motion every detail to be written we ever needed to know to be redeemed, and then changed into a nature of glorified bodies that CAN live in the His holiness and His light, so that we CAN live with Him forever.
While the rest of the world and its inhabitants from the beginning of time who missed out, are woken also to join in for this world's final destruction. ie.. Sheep / goats etc... to never exist again.
What would it be like if God didn't really exist, if there was no Maximality and no Maximum Greatness Potential?
Without any basis of standard of Maximality qualities?
If there is no basis for Conscience without a Maximality to define and establish a standard of conscience, then how does conscience exist, and an even more disturbing question, why is it exclusive to 1 species? So then why would conscience exist among humanity, yet not exist in any other living thing produced in the same possible world?
Wouldn't it make sense that if conscience was evolved, that there would be further samplings of conscience in the same possible world?
1 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
2 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
3 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
4 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!
5 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!
6 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!
7 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.
The rule of logic leading to Maximum Greatness, by standards of Maximum Excellence.
Qualities pertaining to Maximum Excellence in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness is determined by the highest possible Evolution in any and every possible world.
Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!
1 Maximum Greatness exists in any and every possible world.
2 Maximum Excellence exists in every possible way relative to the greatest or at the very least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.
3 If any of the possible worlds consists of only ants and bugs, then Maximum Excellence is whatever qualities are necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in that possible world.
4 So Maximum Excellence is relative to the greater or at least minimum applications necessary to achieve highest evolution of Maximum Greatness for any and all possible world.
5 Maximum Excellence entails the application of qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness relative to any and every possible world.
6 There exists a Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.
7 Maximum Excellence as Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection are relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in every possible world.
8 What is impossible in one possible world, may be be possible in other possible worlds.
9 What is possible in one possible world may be impossible in another possible world.
10 The proposition, there exists an Omnicient, Omnipotent, and Morally Perfect Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in an actual possible world.
11 So the conclusion is there must be a Maximum Excellent Being in any and every possible world that has the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection relevant to the acievement of highest possible evolution in Maximum Greatness in that actual possible world .
12 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
13 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
14 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
15 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!
16 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!
17 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!
18 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.
It all comes down to these questions.
What is necessary for any world to exist?
What is necessary for any world to exist, and without this which is necessary then no possible world could exist?
What is necessary for any possible world to exist?
What is the 1st piece needed beyond the last known layer?
When we peel back every layer down the nucleus of the base core, the final layer out of which all things began, what is necessary for our actual world?
So if we peel back to 1st speck, back to evolutions 1st spark of energy that started the chain reaction of all creation would have to have every building block of our creation, the complexity of our entire world, to the highest possible form of possible evolution achieved, with every detail contained in a speck the size of rhe 1st spark, the size of a mustard seed.
A few interesting rambling thoughts:
Jesus discussed faith the size of a mustard seed could move mountains into the sea. So If our faith is that powerful for us, what is God able to do with a mustard seed???
Its a funny thing that Jesus referred to the kingdom as going through an eye of a needle, and also as a mustard seed.
And Speed of light we now know, and I don't actually grasp.
But I grasp enough to see a connection He is light, there is NO darkness in Him. He is eternal life and the light.
In the New Jerusalem there will be only day. Are light years days in heaven talked about from almost every prophet?
1 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
2 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
3 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
Your kind of messed up about women and your limited on the subject.
Your like wandering in the desert holding so tightly to little when there's so much more in the Word
I'm not discussing the subject with you any more.
Its not worth doing till you are open.
Did you listen to the audio.
It should help you in in relating to women in discussing scriptures.
http://cbesydney.org.au/2015/05/
I had to look up your whole sentence LOL!
You must be brainy!
Thanks for mentioning it, I hadn't heard of it before.
I love this easy to understand clip I have linked showing
the Modal Ontological Argument by Alvin Plantinga.
I love the logic to answer absurd arguements mentioned in the video are arguments commonly given. And they leave me thinking "duh that's a ridiculous argument" not apples to apples. They points are crude, undefined, unthought out nonsense arguments that leave me feeling like there is no intellegent work in their answers to disprove the existence of God by people who use broad strokes taught to them in evolution and nonsense argument when it comes to and how did the 1st speck appear?
http://www.strangenotions.com/
So I was really glad to hear this argument because it comes down to a bottom line that clearly compares ridiculous to logical. So now I can put that feeling to words and show them why their argument is ridiculous compared to a true logical answer.
Judas didn't buy the field the Pharisees did, and the payment was to murder Jesus not to murder Judas!
5 Then Judas threw the silver coins down in the Temple and went out and hanged himself.
6 The leading priests picked up the coins. “It wouldn’t be right to
put this money in the Temple treasury,” they said, “since it was payment for murder.” 7 After some discussion they finally decided to buy the potter’s field, and they made it into a cemetery for foreigners. 8 That is why the field is still called the Field of Blood.
9 This fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah that says,
“They took the thirty pieces of silver—
the price at which he was valued by the people of Israel,
10 and purchased the potter’s field,
as the Lord directed.”
Here is a Biblical presentation which curiously goes through examples of women as prophets and teachers and also goes into the attitude of hearts in women and men.
Please listen to the audio
http://cbesydney.org.au/2015/05/
http://newlife.id.au/
So all women are decieved and there is no truth in them.
Are we not heirs also???
You can't see anything wrong with the attitude of your heart in matters relating to women?
You are using scriptures to defend a faulty sinful attitude.
Go talk to your pastor, your supposed to be under them.
And you need help through this to see clearly.
You use scripture to say you are right because you are a man, and I am wrong because I must be decieved because I'm a woman.
And that's not ridiculous in your mind.
You are literally doing what Adam did the woman.you made is decieved so I am only right or wrong based on her being decieved
Honestly you need to never use those scriptures because you use them to sow fig leaves.
Truth is to set free! Not put down into submission.
1st of all look at the Scripture a women is supposed to subject herself.... Not a man is supposed to subdue!
Your attempt with scripture is to subdue. To rule over, to be right!
2 Tim 2
22 Run from anything that stimulates youthful lusts. Instead, pursue righteous living, faithfulness, love, and peace. Enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.
23 Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. 24 A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. 25 Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.
And I must tell you your error with the use of your scriptures about women.
Ready here it is...
You use it to say you are right in your doctrines because you are a man. Those scriptures ABSOLUTELY do NOT mean you are right because you are a man. That is a sin of pride, and its just as screwed up in doctrine as it can get regarding women.
1st of all I assume I am a good bit older than you, and I think there is something about older women being looked at as mothers able to guide in spiritual matters and practical matters.
2nd of all we are not IN church together and you are just a man discussing scripture with a woman.
You are not my husband
Not my pastor
Not a leader in my church
And you logic is EXTREMELY faulty, because by what you are saying... a woman should cover their head, is that by every man?
Even antiChrists? Even false teachers? Who determines which men have authority over women? Well it must be all????? Really??????
You being a man and me being a woman is irrelevant here.
If there is any relevance you should look to my maturity as an older woman as honorable!
1 is simply being respectful and giving honor for age and maturity.
But you as a man DO NOT cover my head in ANY Biblical context!
So please drop that foolish argument with me it doesn't and will never carry any authority over me as a Christian or as a woman.
I have a husband I have my head covered.
And we are not in church. And I don't subject myself to authority God did not designate.
Ok?
So argue my points. Or don't talk to me because I'm a woman
Your choice!
As in maturity I have you by age and most likely I am more mature spiritually also. At least currently. My assumptions are from our conversations, and what I've seen in your post in general.
You need to grow. I've been around as a Christian for 30 years, I've seen almost every attitude within your post, sometimes even in myself.
I'm not being mean, I'm telling you knowing growth happens, and some times its a 2 step, 1 step forward and 2 steps back. But eventually you do- se- do
In a sense you are correct and then the rest you are incorrect.
Conscience is both men and women.
Women are unique from men in that they can be decieved more easily emotionally. Its the nature of both beasts.
Men being more objective and task oriented, often have women at a disadvantage emotionally. AND no degree of feminism will change it. And they try! The push to equalize a physical relationship.
Guys and gals will always be different on processing it.
Usually the girl thinking more than the guy, being decieved.
The girls who fight so hard to dull their consciences, have to devalue themselves to achieve it. And it hurts them no matter how they act on the outside. They are decieved by denial.
But man is a term of humanity
Both man and wo-man.
So you have to consider context in your conclusions
Ahh lots about Judas!
Provide 20 - we see Jesus the friend who is faithful and wounded
And Judas offers the false kisses of an enemy !
Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.
Remember Joseph, the favored child of Jacob, the other name for Jacob, later given the name Israel?
Do you remember how the brothers beat him and left him for dead, then sold him?
Only to have Joseph save them even after their betrayal. And to be in a position of power because of betrayal, to then save them from an extreme famine?
That's a picture of Jesus being rejected by Israel and being betrayed by a payment. And then forgiveness to Israel and offering Salvation despite their cruel behavior.
A clearer prophesy specific to Judas -
Pharisees were shepherds of the Jews, they were their pastors,
This is a word of God saying how little value they placed on Him.
They paid 30 pieces of silver. The Pharisees had all this memorized, you'd think they could have changed prophesy, right? Yet they couldn't and didn't!
Zechariah 11
10 I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was [r]broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of the Lord. 12 I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. 13 Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.” So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the Lord.
So now consistency and no contradiction.
We have Judas who is know to betray.
Jesus mission was to die on the cross and rise in 3 days!
So He followed the prophesied of how when and why.
If you think it's a contradiction to choose the betrayer, then you don't understand prophesy. Prophesy is what will happen, not what may happen, or changeable in some way.
Prophesy is a word that comes TRUE!
So it would make make prophesy untrue to deviate from what is prophesied. And since there was no lie in Him, He could not deviate from the TRUTH of prophesy. Afterall, Jesus is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us!
The word says:
Isaiah 55
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
So where is this contradiction, or inconsistency?
I think I showed the same thing from 3 authors Matt Mark and John and its in Luke too.
All authored these writings at different times in different places recounting their memories without conferring with each other to make sure they all spun the same story.
Think of it like this you have 3 guys rob some stores. And 1 clerk gets shot. The 3 bozos put their heads together and construct a story, all agreeing to the same false story.
How does that usually work out when they actually have to state lies during different times of the investigation?
But if the 3 guys actually told the truth, the whole truth. There is no deviation because details are recalled as memory. Not memorized with a conflict to their memories.
See when people lie together there are 6 accounts present in the mind. 3 true accounts and 3 fabricated accounts.
That's hard to do, even in a short term with coordination, and it almost always gets mucked up!
But 3 truth accounts are a piece of cake. You may have a different prespective from each. But they dont usually contradict each other.
Most times even with a different prespective if truth is being told the picture of the scene can be reconstructed from either prespective giving an accurate picture of the event.
The Bible is historical and preknown events, with scriptures detailing information to us that we need to know in order to successfully follow a path to God. And to be children of God, and to eventually live eternity with Him in a New Heaven and a New Earth as this one will eventually be destroyed.
This is a conversation Jesus had before His betrayal.
We see Jesus knowing 1 will betray and knowing the 1 who betrays will condemn himself by his own conscience!
9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You.
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
The Disciples in the World
13 But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.
Jesus also prophesied they will strike the Shephard and the sheep will be scattered. That's exactly what happened. It was a commotion. Like us, even though Jesus was right in front of them telling them the order of events, the itinerary, they still were caught off guard. Peter cut off an ear of the soldier, the followers were going nuts, then they fell back feeling their lives also would be taken. They were scared! Yet most of them later faced severe situations of imprisonment, being fed to lions, lost their heads, stoned, murdered! Peter was the only one that I know of that was also crucified. And Jesus pre-telling told to Peter this would be his way of following Him in death.
In John 21 - Its interesting also Jesus makes Peter answer 3 times of his devotion.
So we see Jesus saying He will betray 3 times, and also profess his devotion 3 times. Jesus knowing that when Peter is strengthened he will tend sheep like Jesus did, and will follow Him in death.
John 21:
Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.
18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go.” 19 Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me!”
So not only did Jesus pre-tell both Judas' and Peter's betrayals to accuracy, He also decided to pre-tell both of their ends!
He didnt tell everyone their end. But these 2 were purposeful prophesy as a comparison.
He told of Judas' betrayal with a kiss, and then Judas' remorse leading to his condemnation of conscience, and then to his death.
He wasn't martyred in love and devotion. He lost his life in his own self condemnation. A few things here - you seem to know scriptures a bit, so I won't look email all up, feel free to look up at Biblehub.com "They honor Me with their lips, BUT their hearts are far from me."
Then Peter, Jesus asks 3 times for a declaration of love, and comforts Peter, as if to make sure Peter's conscience endures what is to come, so the guilt of portrayal wasn't Peter's final story.
And how humbling to say such big talk, only to be made a fool of within yourself. We all have that thing where we hold our heads and say how could I ... well this was one of Peter's times.
Big talker to failure, to being empowered by God's Spirit and then follow to the point of being crucified also!
So where is this contradiction, or inconsistency?
I don't understand the example as a inconsistency or as a contradiction
Judas betrayed Jesus, not sure what was in his mind in the betrayal,
Some say it was political, Judas may have thought pushing Jesus into this would force Him to take a political stand. Others think Judas was a greedy miser and 30 pieces of silver was significant to further whatever Judas justified it with.
We see conflict within him, which is typical human nature we see everday! Someone makes a mistake, is overwhelmed within their conscience. Obviously Judas had this conflict. He took the money. Identified Jesus by a kiss, and when He saw the events unfold, which he may not and probably didn't fully anticipate, it freaked him out. Doesn't that happen everyday a thousand times over. We make a decission to do something with a preconceived idea of its unfolding and outcome, only to find we were just a part of making a mess we didn't intend?
But Judas still did betray, and he didn't do what Peter did.
See you actually have a side by side comparison of that day. It's like a season of "24 Hours"
Two disciples betrayed that day!
Both were prophesied before it happened.
Judas was prophesied by Jesus as a general comment, He said 1 would betray me ... And also Judas' betrayal was prophesied
a few times in the Old Testament when prophets were foretelling
of the Messiah's death.
Peter, THE ROCK, also betrayed Jesus!
Jesus said to Peter, this day before the rooster crows you will deny me 3 times.
But then Jesus also prophesied to Peter, that Peter would be strong after that, and then will ultimately follow Jesus in death.
And Peter also was crucified later.
As far as Judas throwing the money, and them taking it to buy a field. It was spent assets and they used it in that manner.
Matt 27
Judas’s Remorse
27 Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death; 2 and they bound Him, and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor.
3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty [a]pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.” 7 And they conferred together and [b]with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “And [c]they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel; 10 and [d]they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”
Conscience is unique to man.
If you say conscience is conditioning, well just like the 1st act of creation was a burst of light or black hole of gravity, and the question never answered who created that 1st reaction.
Isn't nothing even something?
If something didn't exist then how then can nothing exist?
So if conscience was created by conditioning who set up the 1st conscience?
And if man isn't unique then what other creatures have also learned conscience?
And after you tell me about those creatures tell me how they passed conscience on to their dependents?
Or tell me how any other creature can also learn to have a conscience.
If we are just creatures and we developed our own conciences and then conditioned other consciences, isnt it reasonable to think there has to be at least a few other creatures that also can be taught to develope a conscience.
Memories, hmm not just education. Just memory, which other creatures have a memories like us.
I can shoot water at a cat every time she jumps on the counter, eventually she knows water hits me whenever I go up on the counter. But that's not memories.
Even animals that have instinctive memories are not like our memories. An ape may notice another ape is missing, but even that is instinct. They instinctively live in families. But the don't remember like us. A dog may forever be lol to a dead owner. But still not memories like ours. A sea turtle instinctively knows it's way back to land. But that's still instinct.
Our memories we can command, and reminiscing a past person or event. Attaching emotion to our memories.
Even the ape has memory but by instinct, but not a conscience or memories and the command of memories the same thing?
When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"
Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"
Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.
If God exists who is man to question Him. Who is man to demand proof or to demand anything from God.
If He is content to create us, then shouldn't us existing be our lot in life. If we are just assembled then what is soul and what is conscience?
Besides humanity what other species has a conscience.
Conscience is right or wrong. Well you can train right and wrong.
You can train a mouse the right way through the maze to get the cheese.
You can train a dog to obey and do tricks.
Dog lovers they love you! Right? Sure they have an instinct that considers you part of the pack. They have loyalty and they live to please you, and look quilts when they tear up your couch cushions.
God made animals and brought them to Adam and no suitable help mate or companion was like him. So God made animals and even offered them as companions and help mates, but He said not suitable to be like him.
The dog does love you, but there is not really conscience, there is instinct. And the guilt he feels is a conditioned response to the reaction of displeasure he is aware of when you come in. Or he is aware every time he does this behavior it brings displeasure.
But conscience isn't just instinct. It isn't even a conditioned response.
Our consciences exist independently. We are born with a conscience, we become aware of it as we grow.
Conscience is either dulled or made sensitive.
But it existed before being molded.
Conscience can be effected by disease or environment.
But these factors have to alter the conscience we are born with.
Every decission made affecting conscience that is made in the mind isn't an act of conscience.
An act is taken disregarding conscience or in light of conscience.
Example Hitler actions weren't a result of conscience, they were a result of depravity of conscience.
Whatever was put in or pushed through Hitler was an act of depravity silencing his conscience.
Pharoah in the Moses story " let my people go" is a Bible example of a hardened heart, or conscience. A conscience can be dulled to the point of depravity. But still we all have 1.
I'm sure there was even a line Hitler wouldn't cross because of whatever was left of his conscience. Maybe he was dull there was no line left.
The question is, Did the big bang send our consciences?
What else in creation has a conscience?
A conscience can haunt someone, nag at someone, cause guilt, or justice, or cause freedom, take a stand, or take a fall.
Its something that can feel.
Its something that attaches emotion to our actions and our choices. It is the why and the motive of the heart not of the head.
Its the final say when making a list of available choices when consequences have a deeper effect than eating a piece of cake or a piece of fruit.
Our consciences isn't our preferences or our likes and dislikes.
Its a place inside that feels the choice. A piece of cake could be conscience if it's someone else's cake, or if your on a diet and cheating.
But see its a feeling about the action.
Most of us don't feel anything about our piece of cake.
Now if it's double chocolate and makes you think of mom, and you remember how you hurt her when you ran away, thats conscience.
If there is not a God then how do we exclusively have a conscience?
The Bible says God breathed life into the man and he was created a living soul.
It also says God wrote the law on our consciences so no one would have an excuse.
The 1st act of wronged conscience was Adam and Eve hiding in the garden. There is no need to hide if your conscience has nothing to hide.
Man can hide things for years because of conscience. Can any other created thing carry that weight within themselves?
Is man truely unique in creation?
The Bible says Let Us make Man in Our Image
US is the Trinity
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Conscience is unique to man.
If you say conscience is conditioning, well just like the 1st act of creation was a burst of light or black hole of gravity, and the question never answered who created that 1st reaction.
Isnt nothing even something. If something didn't exist how then can nothing exist?
So if conscience was created by conditioning who set up the 1st conscience?
And if man isn't unique then what other creatures have also learned conscience? And after you tell me about those creatures tell me how they passed conscience on to their dependents?
Evan the ape has instinct, but is instinct and conscience the same thing?
When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"
Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.
If God exists who is man to question Him. Who is man to demand proof or to demand anything from God.
If He is content to create us, then shouldn't us existing be our lot in life. If we are just assembled then what is soul and what is conscience?
Besides humanity what other species has a conscience.
Conscience is right or wrong. Well you can train right and wrong.
You can train a mouse the right way through the maze to get the cheese.
You can train a dog to obey and do tricks.
Dog lovers they love you! Right? Sure they have an instinct that considers you part of the pack. They have loyalty and they live to please you, and look quilts when they tear up your couch cushions.
God made animals and brought them to Adam and no suitable help mate or companion was like him. So God made animals and even offered them as companions and help mates, but He said not suitable to be like him.
The dog does love you, but there is not really conscience, there is instinct. And the guilt he feels is a conditioned response to the reaction of displeasure he is aware of when you come in. Or he is aware every time he does this behavior it brings displeasure.
But conscience isn't just instinct. It isn't even a conditioned response.
Our consciences exist independently. We are born with a conscience, we become aware of it as we grow.
Conscience is either dulled or made sensitive.
But it existed before being molded.
Conscience can be effected by disease or environment.
But these factors have to alter the conscience we are born with.
Every decission made affecting conscience that is made in the mind isn't an act of conscience.
An act is taken disregarding conscience or in light of conscience.
Example Hitler actions weren't a result of conscience, they were a result of depravity of conscience.
Whatever was put in or pushed through Hitler was an act of depravity silencing his conscience.
Pharoah in the Moses story " let my people go" is a Bible example of a hardened heart, or conscience. A conscience can be dulled to the point of depravity. But still we all have 1.
I'm sure there was even a line Hitler wouldn't cross because of whatever was left of his conscience. Maybe he was dull there was no line left.
The question is, Did the big bang send our consciences?
What else in creation has a conscience?
A conscience can haunt someone, nag at someone, cause guilt, or justice, or cause freedom, take a stand, or take a fall.
Its something that can feel.
Its something that attaches emotion to our actions and our choices. It is the why and the motive of the heart not of the head.
Its the final say when making a list of available choices when consequences have a deeper effect than eating a piece of cake or a piece of fruit.
Our consciences isn't our preferences or our likes and dislikes.
Its a place inside that feels the choice. A piece of cake could be conscience if it's someone else's cake, or if your on a diet and cheating.
But see its a feeling about the action.
Most of us don't feel anything about our piece of cake.
Now if it's double chocolate and makes you think of mom, and you remember how you hurt her when you ran away, thats conscience.
If there is not a God then how do we exclusively have a conscience?
The Bible says God breathed life into the man and he was created a living soul.
It also says God wrote the law on our consciences so no one would have an excuse.
The 1st act of wronged conscience was Adam and Eve hiding in the garden. There is no need to hide if your conscience has nothing to hide.
Man can hide things for years because of conscience. Can any other created thing carry that weight within themselves?
Is man truely unique in creation?
The Bible says Let Us make Man in Our Image
US is the Trinity
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Did the ancient author of Genesis have calculations and a lab to determine sun didn't appear till later in creation?
Science shows that things were growing without sunlight, and growth didn't show sunlight till later in growth of life time periods.
So either the ancient author had a lucky guess or God showed him.
My point is the ancient author was conditioned by following the sun and seasons for harvesting plants.
So it wouldn't be a natural guess for the author to put growth occurring before the appearance of sun.
Looks like sunlight whether hidden through an opaque atmosphere or whether they were hung through that period. Or 1st seen through that period.
The Bible still confirms this time line order.
And the people who wrote it had no way of knowing this time line unless God really told them.
3.8 billion years ago?
This is our current “best guess” for the beginning of life on Earth. It is distinctly possible that this date will change as more evidence comes to light. The first life may have developed in undersea alkaline vents, and was probably based on RNA rather than DNA.
At some point far back in time, a common ancestor gave rise to two main groups of life: bacteria and archaea.
How this happened, when, and in what order the different groups split, is still uncertain.
3.5 billion years ago
The oldest fossils of single-celled organisms date from this time.
3.46 billion years ago
Some single-celled organisms may be feeding on methane by this time.
3.4 billion years ago
Rock formations in Western Australia, that some researchers claim are fossilised microbes, date from this period.
3 billion years ago
Viruses are present by this time, but they may be as old as life itself.
2.4 billion years ago
The “great oxidation event”. Supposedly, the poisonous waste produced by photosynthetic cyanobacteria – oxygen – starts to build up in the atmosphere. Dissolved oxygen makes the iron in the oceans “rust” and sink to the seafloor, forming striking banded iron formations.
Recently, though, some researchers have challenged this idea. They think cyanobacteria only evolved later, and that other bacteria oxidised the iron in the absence of oxygen.
Yet others think that cyanobacteria began pumping out oxygen as early as 2.1 billion years ago, but that oxygen began to accumulate only due to some other factor, possibly a decline in methane-producing bacteria. Methane reacts with oxygen, removing it from the atmosphere, so fewer methane-belching bacteria would allow oxygen to build up.
2.3 billion years ago
Earth freezes over in what may have been the first “snowball Earth”, possibly as a result of a lack of volcanic activity. When the ice eventually melts, it indirectly leads to more oxygen being released into the atmosphere.
2.15 billion years ago
First undisputed fossil evidence of cyanobacteria, and of photosynthesis: the ability to take in sunlight and carbon dioxide, and obtain energy, releasing oxygen as a by-product.
There is some evidence for an earlier date for the beginning of photosynthesis, but it has been called into question.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/
Is that the order? And at what years in evolution did they have their mark?
Well if God inspired the elements needed for time from day 4 and put that in place 1st, then each day would literally be interpreted as 24 hours.
I think to the natural most basic mind the order would have been different
More likely establishing time 1st or even time 3rd
But the author actually did something different.
He started with space, then the author went to earths form.
Its far fetched to think the earth was just an unformed rock in space.
So the author started with a reaction in space.
Then jumped from the reaction in space to the world's form and start of life through simple growth of plants reseeding and filling with bacterial and oxygen and nutrients.
Without the oxygen produced by a land rich in plant life, no creature could survive.
So even that is basically advanced.
So he adreeses an event in space placing a rock filled with water which may have been melted ice arriving with water on top of ground like a rock crusted over by dense ice.
So its very possible these are the building blocks of all life being placed 1st! Only to go back to space on day 4. To then place time.
THEN back to Earth to complete life. Life which clearly has time attached.
So the thought process is pretty advanced.
A guy who can't see asteroids or other space activity, other than the obvious that any 8 year old can look at, and he drew a picture by the text that generations of years were applied to the 1st 3 days. And then even said in a portion of the text "generation of days = 1 day" and we know that any 8 year old can give the broad stroke of sunrise - day sunset - evening. As a matter of life intelligence, they lived life by a 24 hour day, and seasons! It was probably the most understood applicable knowledge they had at the time! So why didn't he start with what he knew best?
The day woke them to care for all their things, their livelihood, their families, their flocks, their food sources, and especially their vegitation! Yet the author has the sun after vegitation filling the earth.
For a prehistoric guy the sun and seasons was their sustenance. Warmth growth of crops. So why put vegitation growth before time sun and moon.
Why put sun after the growth upon the earth.
If you were the prehistoric guy writing this what order would you have.
And which days would you change as events.
Would you in practicality start with an unformed rock dangling in a black hole?
What's incredible is the 1st 4 days.
So if you actually think about the picture he is drawing in each verse, it is extremely advanced! Read the first 4 chapters. Even if you read them before and picture each day. Then think about somethings we know today, and think about their limiyltations back then.
This is how advanced that 1st story is, it literally already addressed the Bing Bang!
It addressed atmosphere. It even addressed the cycle of rain.
Also when it was written they had rain. It addresses a water canopy released at the great flood. A prehistoric guy may think 40 days of intense rain could cover the little earth he lived on at the time. But the author instead suggests the 1st rain was a violent release of a water canopy. So the author by doing so addresses atmospheric changes. From mist from the ground. Which would make sense with condensation and humidity. And addressed the change in atmosphere to even oxygen content.
Before and after the flood had a big impact on life expectancy, as well as sin/curse of man reducing life expectancy.
The dinosaurs even though saved through the flood may not have been able to survive these changes, and all life expectancy was reduced as the atmosphere thinned. The water canopy probably made the earth extremely rich with oxygen. And other nutrients.
So I think if we look at what was not possibly known and see the explanations I think advanced science is written. There is "nothing new under the sun"
What is wrong with you?
God is the Creator! Every action taken by God was on purpose.
Honestly it doesn't matter if it was fairy dust and bang it existed. Or if God took His time on some days.
Isnt that up to Him.
I saw a few spiritual jewels in God's Word.
And I shared them. And somethings I've been seeing, I think are really awesome nuggets of revelation..
I shared it, if you don't see it, thats fine. Its my jewel today anyway!
You don't see me calling you names, calling you a heretic, or saying your not a Christian. Dude you are sinning! Stop your hurting yourself by the pride and bitterness.
The earth was floating in the Universe not spinning.
Floating as any rock in space.
A dark planet full of water.
So then on day 1 God made the universe and the world of water.
The Spirit of God was roaming over surface of the world made of water.
Then God made light separated the world in 1/2 with darkness and light. Light He called good. Named light "day" and dark "night."
And that was day 1.
Even today the oceans have midnight zones and twilight zones, and its lighter closer to the surface of the water. So light may have coexisted with the water showing in the water on the 1st day.
And a morning and an evening.
There is no time period for day 1 it could have been millions of years or 1000 years or a 24 hour day as we know it, but I'm thinking not a 24 hour day.
God is not governed by time. And He didnt create time as we know it till day 4. And He created time to govern our days. And number our days.
So on day 1, my theory is, time as we know it didn't exist.
Each day says there was morning and evening, but time didn't exist so light and dark were divided in two, and firmament nor sky nor air nor atmosphere existed yet.
Day and night, light and dark, morning and evening all these terms didn't have a definitive time value.
DUET 11 : 21
so that your days are multiplied, and the days of your sons, on the ground which Jehovah hath sworn to your fathers to give to them, as the days of the heavens on the earth. Heavens days are eternal. Time does not govern God or Heaven.
The days weren't coordinate by the world spinning till after day 4. So the unformed tumbled as earth stood floating without rotation in space.
Day 2 God placed the core and earth in the middle of the world. Separating water from water. Water covered the firmanent.
Read the text Genesis 1
Then it is expanded in Genesis 2 And 3
Its like Moses started with bullet points and then narrated details.
If I am correct .... it shows science and also creation.
Also this video is good about the astronomy portion in light of science and creation. Before day 4 light and darkness existed, coexisted simultaneously, God didn't divide them between day and night till day 4. Making Day 5 the first full day in time as we understand time. If no sun and moon were in the sky, would we have 24 hour days? Would we have 4 seasons? Would we have calender years. Were seasons completing a cycle establishing a 365 day year in rotation?
The Fourth Day: Sun, Moon, Stars
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Then you have to think some ancient guy wrote this without scientific data or understanding the solar system, and without understanding fossils, fossil fuels, etc.... that would have developed during the vegitation growth, and also since the garden was separate, and not knowing the time Adam and Eve were in the garden, dinosaurs could have reproduced and lived in vitality. With man entering in a short time before the flood.
Even that makes sense, since man seemed to appear toward the end years of roaming dinosaurs, with dinosaurs dieing off through the flood and after the flood. Man was removed from the garden about 1600 years before the flood.
My point is believing something and holding a view are different terms.
If you believe something you are convinced
If you hold a view it's an opinion.
So if someone says I don't believe in God, they are saying after really applying thought I believe this and believing is I am certain by way of being convinced.
A view can be well thought out but it's not being convinced in the sense of believing. A view is an opinion based on the info used to weigh the view point. One doesn't have to be convinced through objective investigation to hold a view, or they can have thoroughly investigated to hold a view.
But beliefs are not views. They are conclusions that are convinced. By understanding the depth of both beliefs.
So belief is a much stronger view, based on real thought resulting in real conviction.
So when someone says they believe there is no God, sometimes it's a true belief. But most times its an assumption view.
Actually if you see my last post asking to help Saintnow read on context on GENESIS 1
My theory from reading the Scripture with or without science
Is that Day 4 was the 1st day out of the 7 days that God put time as we know it in place. On day 4 He put moon and Sun and lit the bodies of space in our solar system.
Making Day 5 the 1st true documentaries 24 hour day.
And days of order if you notice the progression
Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 .... etc
God left land and sea vegitation to grow in a day that wasn't governed by time ordering a 24 hour day. Because without rotation there is no 24 hour day. So all 4 days before that is time in eternity not time as created for man. I am saying God created time as man knows it on day 4. With day 5 being the 1st day governed by time as man knows it, a 24 hour day
Man you have huge issues! You are wrong because of your fruit. So not even on the basis of doctrine.
Go to your pastor and let him read the stuff.
You need some guidance on how to love brothers and sisters in Christ, if you are even a Christian.
You are missing the point of abiding in Him. Your a mess!
A proud Bible thumping mess!
Here is the text about women in KJ version since even though you can't read well you insist on using old English!
Here are the highlights of context in 1 Corinthians
Paul is trying to establish order in a church that is living in a progressive liberal society!
I'll just pull out a few consecutive thoughts to show you
the CONTEXT of your misused and misguided interpretation of scripture!
Anyone want to chime in to help Saintnow read in context? I feel like I'm in an episode of PBS kid show Super Why!
Here are large clips sampling in the texts of Paul's letter in order they appear, of chapter and paragraph showing the letters context bringing order and removing divisions.
Letter discusses matters of concience regarding what to eat and customs and traditions
What is "clean to eat"
1 Corinthians 10
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. 24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth. 25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. 27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: 29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? 30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11
"Women in church, see last comment Paul concludes in this paragraph!"
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
1 Corinthians 11
Paul discusses having the Lord's supper together
17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 18For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
1 Corinthians 12
Spiritual gifts, and doctrines and behaviors during church assemblies
Many Members, One Body
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many. 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Spiritual Gifts
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
The more excellent way continues in chapter 13
Love
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6;Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
I welcome anyone to answer this, please just answer according to reading the text.
I think the first 4 days are those millions of years.
I believe according to what I see and read in Genesis 1 that the 1st full 24 hour day was not until Day 5.
And on that day it says God made Birds and Fish.
But since time and seasons are governed by the sun moon and earths rotation, I think I am just being factual.
The 6th Day He made man and Animals.
I also think man could have been in the garden for a long time while animals and fish populated outside the garden. Which could explain some time where Dinosaurs roamed the earth also. With man coming out of the garden to the tail end of dinosaurs existence.
It explains many scientific things and also it explains what science can't. Like nature jumping into existence. Since it would take an orderly chaos 1 in 10 million chance to form 1 full creature, let alone fill the earth with the diverse classifications and species found in the oceans, lakes, flying in air, and animals. So if God exists and the Creation story is legitimate, my view would be both scientifically credible and creationist credible. Correct?
Saintnow thinks I'm a heretic.
Maybe you can read thid account and tell us just with using basic reading skills and 4th grade science, could I actually be correct?
And with Saintnow being a literal 24 hour days for all 7, I honestly think it's fine either way if he believes that it's literal in time as we know it.
I think my thoughts are more accurate, but I also don't think (IF God exists, which I believe He absolutely exists) But this answer isnt a faith question its a reading comprehension question.
I dont think God will think either of us a "heretic" for our interpretation of reading of this.
GENESIS 1 King James Version
The Creation
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The First Day: Light
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
The Second Day: Firmament
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
The Third Day: Dry Ground
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
The Fourth Day: Sun, Moon, Stars
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
The Fifth Day: Fish and Birds
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
The Sixth Day: Creatures on Land
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Use scripture prove yourself to be a Workman accurately handling the word.
You don't use scripture, you must not know it well. READ IT!
21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work. 22Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. 24The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
Saintnow your a wacko. Very dogmatic.
How can you stand any other Christians.
Read Timothy avoid foolish arguments. You fight everyone. Like your the truth corrector. And its not like you even use scripture.
So your weak in scripture and you take verses out of context, and you use the word in an incomplete immature way.
I appreciate your zeal but what's you motive?
Well they seemed to have had an idea that time worked around the solar system. Or at least if they didn't they worded it in a way that conveyed it when time was established.
Why did the writer choose the order for the creation days?
Even that took some thought and advanced thinking.
How does time work?
How do we know it's 6 am or 6 pm?
What movements and rotations are needed for a 24hr day?
The1st 24 hour day with the movements of earth and moon was on day 4. And day 5 was the 1st full 24 hr day.
The days before that can be 24 hours 1000 years or millions of years. The 1st documents le 24 hour day was day 5!
Well Paul says he is all things to all people that he may win some.
So I guess science matters if your talking with someone that has more of a scientific background.
I think if you can give the good news of God's word in a way they can relate to it its a good thing.
I honestly don't hold it as a big deal whether 1 person holds onto
7 / 24 hour days. Or of longer days.
I think both beliefs are fine neither are in contradiction to what is written. And how he did it doesn't matter to our salvation.
Vampires, Satan, Demons, Evil, and Darkness do exist.
In the garden after the fall in the garden, God cursed the serpent saying "On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life."
To Eve He cursed childbirth etc...
And to Adam He said "18 Both thorns and thistles shall grow for you And you will
eat the plants of the field 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken, For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”
So Satan the God of this world feeds off of the dust of the cursed ground that
Adam wrestles with and is enslaved to, made, God actually says "You are dust" and returning back to when he dies.
Most people have a NATURAL fascination for the dark realm is appealing of the cursed flesh dark relmn. Speaking of tangible, Satan is very tangible. He
is the God of this world. There is no objection to things that are of natural to the cursed dust.
In many ways the evil in the supernatural and more visible than God, Angels, Goodness, and Light.
The reason there is little the God of this world appeals to the darkness in our nature there is no objection in the natural mind that is fixed on living according to the nature of man after the fall and in subjection to the God of this world.
It should be revealing that awareness of the supernatural is statistically more visible and favorable the supernatural related to the God of this world in general. And Many have experienced something at least once if not more some supernatural experiences, little signs, or premonitions, or have seen Orbs, or some crazy turn of events. Sometimes even seeing or feeling the presence of evil.
Its funny though to think these are often the same people who deny God exists. But they know or feel the spiritual world around them.
Shouldn't your spiritual mind question why the God of this world, even in a terrifying form has less of an objection than the Spirit of God.
If I asked an atheist or agnostics , "if I could prove right in front of them that God and Demons exist. And if I could do that, which would you choose, God
or Demons? Aside from some insincere defensive answers, most people would say "they wouldn't pick the demons" But they can't even bring themselves to say they'd pick God.
You should understand it's spiritual, and people are held captive to Satan as part of the curse on Satan and on man. Most people at one time or another have had some brush against the darkness of the supernatural, and if that exist you should see the contrast. Even if it's hazy. Yet many choose the familiarity of their captors, without resisting long enough to investigate freedom in God to at least understand your choices. People become dependent on their captors. Isn't that oddly human nature.
So the question is what would you do, what would your response to God be if
I could prove God exists? Then what? Thoughts like that may be met with a 1st immediate thought, to draw away, because you don't really want to know if He is there let alone meet Him.
Even if the knowledge of God is written in your conscience and your free will chooses to dull any questions about God within your conscience and you choose to "believe" that God doesn't exist, it's based on assumption not convinced. So unless you investigated it is not a belief. Its a view but not a, belief. Because beliefs are convinced, not accepting or assuming, but convinced
Please elaborate on your investigation
If you have not completed an honest investigation then you are rassuming. And assuming based on others assumptions doesnt convince anyone. You are obviously angry about God.
There is probably something on your life that is angry at God if He does exist.
So if God did exist what about Him.makes you angry?
Everyone knows there is a God. It is written on your conscience. And evident in nature. And is seen in others.
But consciences are easily dulled.
Have you ever investigated God, with a reasonable effort, as if you really and truely wanted to know?
If you adopted it without proving there isnt a God, then your not really an atheist. Your conclusions are not based on a belief saying "you don't believe God exists."
You are an atheist because it's convenient to be absent of God. And you choose not to find out.
To "believe" something it implies you investigated all the sides and evaluated both theories, and through your own reasonable effort you have concluded your position, and that IS what you believe!
You can't believe something is true or not true without truely believing the other is false. And you can't differentiate truth from false without investigating both theories in an objective way. That's NOT belief! Belief is CONVINCED. Convinced only comes through true investigation!
So you may be an atheist because you choose to be one, or because you want to be, but believing isn't a passive activity, its an activity that end in being convinced! Being convinced doesn't come by accepting another's view. Thats just following the beliefs of someone elses, and they typically didn't put out effort to be convinced either. So your assumption is based off anothers assumption, and all the way down the line!
This debate affords the opportunity to be formally convinced.
And even to convince us!
Believing is a conviction, conviction is convinced, convinced is firm and no beliefs come without a truely objective investigation.
And that effort determines what you believe!
Otherwise it's an assumption not a belief!
So you assume there is no God.
You choose to think there is no God.
You choose to ignore investigating God.
And you will whole heartedly argue it, but I wouldn't call it belief or being convinced. Because you are perched saying I don't need to know or care to know and it God's job and our job to convince you beyond your basic assumption.
As far as blood I have many statement referring to the work of the cross. The attonement and cleansing from Jesus' blood.
Without the blood there is no cleansing of sin.
We have the unblemished lamb, Jesus. Isaiah 53 and the Passover story clearly shows we are in the "Arc" "our lives hidden in Christ" sealed with His blood, on the door posts of us temples, as Egypt is swept away, we stand in Him. Sealed with the Holy Spirit.
So I don't know where you got any of that.
You are not being a good witness by constantly arguing and judging people as heretics the way you do.
Saintnow you are judgemental lyrics impaired.
What do you think is so wrong with my faith that you think this.
Are you an incompetent reader?
Have you bothered to read what I have posted?
Your arguing and judging is a poor testimony to others!
Actually your wrong!!
Jesus loved the world... those who are His share His concerns!
What good is faith if it doesn't act according to faith.
Christian faith specifically is usually the good stuff we see people
do for others.
Sharing our faith is like pulling someone out of a burning building, or warning someone of danger ahead. Taking our time to give our faith, and being concerned enough to make our religion "tangible" for the benefit of others.
We could be selfish, and live for ourselves, and may be YOU would like that. But for everyone who doesn't want to hear it there is another whose life is helped, their families strengthened, their damaged lives made better by the Christians who didn't just live in selfishness, with religion only nene fixing themselves.
So if you don't want to hear it then don't. But don't think because you don't want or need religion, those who have religion to give always have people who need the hope the love and the support of others who live by religion that gives their faith away to others so others benefit!
What would communities look like without the “voice,” and “influence” of the Christian religion?
How many people give their time and talents, and resources because of the impact of Jesus on their own lives. How many people dedicate hours to make a creative Bible camp for the joy of children. Or volunteer Sunday school time to give parents time to renew themselves in services while their children are doing fun activities teaching them God's love and how to care for others, and give role models of the golden rule.
The value Christians in general contribute to the health, and balance, and stability, and support, in the lives of everyone that live in our communities is immeasurable!
No one is perfect, but think of the people you know personaly, many you personally have loved in your own lives.
What touch or impact has religion had in your own personal sphere of experiences?
People who may have had issues, touched by religious influence exercised in their communities. It supports them, challenges them, and often pulls them up.
Religious values have influenced so many people to be better versions of themselves, as fathers and mothers, even when for 1 reason or another they may not have been capable of being better before on their own.
Many people have had strangers walk with them and carry them even when their own families didn't. Strangers who became family to them!
These damaged people don't always arrive to a standard others see as commendable, but the steps taken are leaps in a positive direction for so many of them.. Without Christianity and active Christians where would these people be?
So for everyone of you that wants to force Christians to behind closed doors, realize that if we didn't open the door of our comfortable lives, all those we helped along the way would have stayed broken. And that level of broken would have made your experience in life different too!
Example Christians have a group called Youth with a Mission.
They helped 1000's of drug addicts every year every where. So what I'd they didn't? Even if you personally weren't effected, the results effect you. If someone is addicted they often resort to crime or they are impaired and hurt others on purpose or by accident.
So before you wish faith away consider the cost of its absence!
He does show Himself in a tangible way.
Atheism is a convenient truth accepted without thorough investigation. Not because God didn't make Himself clearly visible, but because ignoring God is convenient, and falling back on prove it is no effort!!
You think no effort to prove He doesn't exist is acceptable.
But if there is a God or isn't a God, shouldn't you have a diligent investigation before accepting either ideas?
Afterall, if God does exist your apathy and lack of effort won't excuse you. And I seriously doubt if there is a God, that you will accuse Him of not making Himself tangible enough, when you didn't bother even looking for something tangible.
Prove He doesnt exist for us and for yourself.
You should be absolutely sure through investigation. Because assuming is just a cop-out!
You think the world would be a better place without religion?
That's pretty narrow. You must not know the depth of possitive impact religion has had in communities, in families, and in the lives of individuals.
If you withdrawal religion you should not assume that people would act on the inspirations they have acted on. Now for this example I want to stick just with Christian faiths, and not cults, like Westborough Baptist, or others, and not other religions like Islam, not even Judaism. I think that's fair, because stereo typing any world view is inaccurate and unfair. So you can't lump them together.
If you want take each separate and tell me all about the picture without it! And if you feel the need to include crusades, then please do complete homework and describe why Christians were there to begin with.
It's like the old popular Christmas movie "it's a wonderful life"
At first glance you don't see the impact of life without something or someone. So honestly evaluate a real picture without it, and without the Christians who did things they did because of the influence particuarly of Jesus in their lives.
Why is America here? What motivated us to be us?
And also while convincing me avoid the meaningless arguments everyone "uses" of small groups that acted outside of Christian teachings. Like Salem witch hunts, or the grand # of about 8 random individuals at random times who independently assaulted abortion clinics.
Because obviously I'm looking for a factual and reasonable argument from you to back your statements!
You don't seem to understand God, or people, or regimes, or war, or religion.
As far as wars it's not true of motivation if you think Hitler was inspired by religion. Just because He isolated an idea and phrase thar had an appearance of religion. It was done so for greed and power and hate.
There is no where in the New Testaments where Jesus or His followers command or even suggest murder.
And there is a time for peace and a time for war.
So the Christian response was to sacrafice our lives to stop Hitler and the atrocities.
So if you want to blame defending the innocent that can't help themselves, then YES religion does cause war.
But religion didn't come through Hitler evil regime, it came from a Christian people Clothed in compassion, and with the force of defending those who couldn't defend themselves.
Same with the Civil War! Blame it on Christians to not sit back while others were trampled on. Instead over 300,000 people from the North lost their lives or were injured. Over 300,000 gave up someone they loved to help others. They gave up a parent of young children, a spouse in a young family, they gave up physical wholeness in the name of religion. You are absolutely correct!
But let me ask you, what if they didn't?
Some people are atheists simply because they don't want to believe in God.
They don't want to be accountable to God.
It's a matter of convenient truth to remove God and religion. And its convenient, because the thought is prove it the Ill believe it. So its convenient, since the atheist doesnt think they need to prove God doesn't exist.
But it's without true evaluation. And its without the Atheist feeling the need to dispgrove God.
These "fake atheists" actully took on the resposibility to disprove God. And proved to themselves they were wrong!
Denial and deception go hand in hand. By avoiding a reasonable challenge to their thoughts they live in denial and deception. So please true atheists prove there is no God. That's what this debate is about. It's not about you dismissing the argument, it's about convincing others there is no God.
So take the challenge, and show me! I think it's out of blind ignorance, out of shutting your ears and eyes so you don't challenge an easy convenient truth. I think is omitting facts and its not founded in the degree of questioning that is complete in diligently convincing others or really even yourself that God doesn't exist.
Many dismiss God based on a "Santa" persona, He knows when we are naughty...
The atheist's denial of religion and of God has been formed by views they accept without investigation, concluded mostly by others who do not want a to answer their own life standards to a God they dont choose to know!
Their investigation consists of avoiding God, and avoiding any thoughts or opinions that may challenge their version of convenient truth.
They make their conclusions without giving it any thought let alone an attempt of an independent thorough investigation.
Atheists are so willing to accept that He doesn't exist, they argue without objectivity instead of challenging themselves to prove He doesn't exist. I think more creationist have at one time objectively looked at evolution through public school and universities than the other way around.
But very little if any effort is spent weighing the data that suggests He may actually really exist.
To many atheists it's a convenient truth, to be left unchallenged. They approach the idea of faith and sound reasonings for creation with a smug harshness against religion. Disproving He exists by holding unchallenged theories. And then not taking any responsibility to prove that He doesn't exist.Innocent till proven guilty, to do that all facts should be judged on truth and accuracy.
We creationists are on trial to prove that God does exist.
But even more shouldn't the atheist be on trial to prove He doesn't exist.
We can win an argument today, but defending on if there is a Creator or not, the atheist will stand alone in their investigation and face Him if He truely does exist. Shouldn't you at least prove He doesn't exist since so you can make that determination.
No understanding of spiritual things they don't believe could exist. They think how can God allow evil to exist, or allow pain, or judge sin.
So the atheists hasn't given much thought on why or how God exists, they focus on ignoring any details that my otherwise show that He does exist.
My point is actually to prove to atheists there is a God. Since the post was to basically convince creation or atheism.
So I went by way of creation and science.
Many of our discussions have gone into directions of 1 of faith to another of faith.
Starting with your dispute of the creation rendition I layer out.
I think it's easier for an atheist to be convinced with the logic I highlighted in the Scripture over each day is 24 hours.
And I backed up my reasoning with many scriptures as well as some scientific information.
And I think if you re-look and consider the depth of growth God accomplished and His views on that growth you may conclude some similar views.
If not I don't actually think Jesus will separate the sheep and the goats based on if they thought all the days of creation to be 24 hours.
But I think taking Genesis to an indepth look may help to reasonably explain creation to an atheist. And it doesn't detract. Since God still made nature jump into existence. But it also addresses science. And I think my approach is honest and as written in Genesis. So I didn't make it up, I simply read it.
As far as blood I have many statement referring to the work of the cross. The attonement and cleansing from Jesus' blood. Without the blood there is no cleansing of sin. We have the unblemished lamb. Isaiah 53 and the Passover story clearly shows we are in the "Arc" "our lives hidden in Christ" sealed with His blood, on the door posts of us temples, as Egypt is swept away, we stand in Him. Sealed with the Holy Spirit.
So I don't know where you got any of that.
We have had discussions before, and you've been quick with statements like that. Calling me a heretic and denouncing me because I am a woman.
But even that scripture you seem to have taken without context.
You should re-read it. I won't say much to interpret it for you, other than it was a letter by Paul. And the entire letter addressed being considerate in love for each other, and not making others stumble. It was about some with weak conciences, and also about differences in cultures.
So read 1 Corinthians again, and pay close attention to the letter itself. Then rebook at the scriptures pertaining to women in that chapter, see what Paul is actually saying.
The final statement in the portion about women, is "11 However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, 15but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.
As far as nature is cursed, its actually neutral. Its purpose was for the children of God.
Its subjected for a time vanity, futility, whatever. It is in subjection groaning for the New Heaven an New Earth. When the children of God will be revealed.
Nature proclaims the Glory of God, it praises God, it groans waiting for God. Nature is not evil, nor is it cursed. The ground man was made from was cursed, everything that comes from the toil of man is cursed. But the flood cleansed the ground.
And its not complicated. Its simple. It follows a logical order and has deep spiritual truths that you must be childlike to understand.
Being overly simplistic takes more thought. And we have possibly alienated science needlessly. But God was clear that knowledge and understanding would increase.
- I think that's in Daniel.
After the flood God said He will no longer curse the ground.
So the flood was cleansing. Genesis 8: 20 "Then Noah built an altar to the LORD,
and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings
on the altar." So I don't have thoughts or study on what this means off the top of my head, but I do know there will be a New Jerusalem, A new Heaven and a New Earth.
21The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
22“While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
And cold and heat,
And summer and winter,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”
I know the dust or the ground will bring a 2nd resurection.
There was a 1st resurection after Jesus rose from the dead.
But I don't have a clear picture of "Doctrines" maybe you have in site to give me on these matters. But you may want to re-visit and re-look outside of the "box of doctrines" because there are sound doctrines, but also there is revelations. The Helper was given for many jobs in our lives and in the world, but He also speaks mysteries and gives understanding that is not for the natural mind.
I don't suggest you be driven by "every wind of doctrine."
But the Spirit is also wind!
In Acts-
1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
In John-
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
John the Baptist said:
”30“He must increase, but I must decrease.
31“He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32“What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33“He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true. 34“For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure. 35“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
It is correct that it was created in 6 days and the 7th He rested.
I am merely stating that what God considers 1 day, and our natural minds on application of 1 day are different.
I believe God was capable of doing it in 24 hours, but I don't think He did.
God is eternal, no beginning and no end.
So He had billions of years to do what He could have quickly done in 24 hours.
And we know He could have because He brought forth very complicated life forms on days 5 and 6.
The question isn't what God could have done, the question is what did God do?
God is patient, and we know that many miracles of God happened by a recipe or a series of events building up to His purposed design.
God is a Creator. So if we look at Him as a Creator, we know that creating is 1st thinking, drawing plans, designing, gathering materials, possibly excavating, preparing a foundation, sketching, building upon it, adding color, redesigning, reshaping, outlining, clarifying, expanding, differentiating, filling in details, giving it depth, completing it, signing it, presenting it, and enjoying it.
We know God builds, precept upon precept, prophesy to fulfilment, and God is known for His Patience. So when creating it would make sense that He would establish creation through a similar process.
So yes they were 6 days, but God created time. He Himself is timeless! Eternal! Without a beginning and without an end.
From 1 end of galaxies to the other end of galaxies
He is the Creator. The Archetetct!
So I don't think by embracing the idea of what 1 day meant in Genesis 1 is heretic theology. I think it may be closer to sound doctrine than actual 24 hour days.
Also when it comes to plants and vegetation throughout ALL the scriptures, these things are left to grow. Not forced but to establish a seed by God and then patient growth by God. We see God's patience for growth in many parables by Jesus, like the wheat and the tares.
There are a few things God left to natural growth. In nature specifically, but then also shown through our understanding as the created ones, we can see them and easily God can give us understanding in spiritual applications. The spiritual precepts follow follow nature's examples. And growth is left to its own time. And everything that jumped into being is immediate creation. But vegitation and the foundation of creation is left to eternal time for growth. The creations that unfold in due time without jumping into being are Heavens and Earth, Water, Light, Darkness, Ground or Foundation, Oxygen, Air, Atmosphere, Gravity, Fruits, Vegetables, Grains, Seeding, Planting, Growing, and Physical Reproduction ie... 9 months to grow a baby.
Out of this list the only growth that has time attached as a measurement is
"Be fruitful and multiply"
The 1st reproducing command He gave was to nature. But He didn't say to growth to "be fruitful and multiply to vegitation." He said told vegitation to follow a natural course, be orderly, re-seed, and simply grow. And also through this process He put into the earth every natural resource needed to sustain our lives. So aside from the plant growth showing God's spiritual implications, it also shows the depths of God's practical applications.
The only instance I recall off the top of my head, Im sure there are others, vegitation growing by a command of God, also withered as fast as it grew by God's command. And that was in the story of Jonah's shade tree. The tree didn't remain because it had no depth in roots.
It was a mere object lesson. Showing God can create growth, but the patience of God remains longer, and He makes roots deep. As He was showing His Patience and Mercy for Nineveh and for Jonah. Also recall the parable of the sower, 1 doesn't take root, 1 wither without depth, and the other bears fruit that remains because it's rooted in depth.
So God established growth, but not superficial. He established depth that reseeds and causes new growth with depth, and in its own time, however long it takes, God gives it eternal time. But only "1 day" of eternal time.
"Genesis 1: 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
He did not use the term "be fruitful and multiply" till day 5. He applied the phrase to creatures birds, fish, animals, and man. Applying the phrase to creations that He had completed in 1 day of man's time, governed by time made for and given to man.
So we may number our days.
Deut 11: 21 "so that your days are multiplied, and the days of your sons, on the ground which Jehovah hath sworn to your fathers to give to them, as the days of
the heavens on the earth."
When the 1st creations appeared in completed form. God used the term "Be Fruitful and ..."
Genesis 1: 22 "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day." And "Genesis 1: 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.
Ecc 3
1 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—
2 A time to give birth and a time to die;
A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
3 A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.
4 A time to weep and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn and a time to dance.
5 A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.
6 A time to search and a time to give up as lost;
A time to keep and a time to throw away.
7 A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.
8 A time to love and a time to hate;
A time for war and a time for peace.
9 What profit is there to the worker from that in which he toils? 10I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.
God Set Eternity in the Heart of Man
11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.
Actually that's not true. All Creation groans waiting for the children of God to be revealed. The Snake was cursed to be lower than all the animals.
And if the account is accurate in wording, it says man was made then God went and prepped a garden for him. And then God placed man in it
Then He made and brought the animals before Adam, none a suitable companion. He made Eve from Adam. And Adam was made from dust outside of the garden.
So nature is neutral and in subjection to futility . And we have many scriptures that say nature praises God, Nature doesn't choose anything. And it glorifies God because it knows there is one.
Here is God shutting out of the garden.
Gen 3
22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
Here is the wording of the curses:
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And dust you will eat
All the days of your life
The snake was cursed more. The animals carried a burden of the curse in subjection to God's will.
And the snake eating the cursed ground, the dust.
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
Here is mans curse, of course Eves was child birth and subjection.
But for the man -
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19 By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”
They were from the ground of the garden. So nature praises God. Nature is neutral, the ground is cursed. Man is cursed to work with toil, it would be with difficulty with the ground ultimately winning, in death returning to the ground. So you live fighting it and you die trapped in it.
They still are days. They are days that have light and dark, but not sun or moon. They are days that have morning and evening.
However that completed whether they just simply coexistence and morning and evening coexisted simultaneously divided pretty much stationary. Or with some floating of position, or it was completed when a full turn was made transferring the light where darkness was and visa versa.
So either the pics I get are there was maybe 1000 years for each day till the 5th day, possibly the 4th day. And either light and darkness gradually tumbled changing light ad darkness position, or I it made full conversion meaning 1/2 the day was dark 1/2 was light - but this is least likely. Or the tumbling bounced the position often and frequently in a random pattern. And when the time equivalent of His 1 day was our thousand years He called it a day.
As far as spinning and 24 hours and seasons and years as we know it beginning. That's just reading. And knowing very basic science.
If God didn't put a Sun and moon untill day 4, then how was the world spinning in its current rotation.
Spinning around sun and placement the of moon is what makes 1 day. 24 hours.
It would also make sense why 300 foot trees are buried in the North Pole. Found through archeologist. And discussed also by creationist. My theory makes sense because our rotation didn't change. Those trees may have gotton there during the time the world floated in place in space. Because the Sun wasn't a factor and the earth rotating and its "equator" wouldn't exist to make areas of different climates to that degree. There may have been some paternity to the light creating some climate differences. But not divided by the equator as we know it.
Because we didn't likely change 120 degrees in rotation to the sun, so as to have the North Pole
There are a few different applications of Biblical prophesy.
So you have "the 1st Adam brought into sin, the 2nd Adam brings us back to commune with God.
You have application of historical Biblical application, as history and as lesson, and then future prophetic application.
So Cain and Abel show the telling of the pleasing sacrafice of Jesus and the rejection and murder that told of Jesus' experience when He was to come. With that being a fulfilled prophesy. You may even have an end times application in.
Cain was marked by God, there is a mark in revelations, maybe not "the mark" so all would know him and not harm him.
And being a man who lived by his work which wrestled the ground for his survival, against the cursed ground from which man was made, and the ground man returns to. So he is a picture of living undwber the law, with judgement of hate and jealousy.
And the curse of Cain grows as the 7 times cursed are those who murder Cain. So its no wonder that in the end times love waxes cold. And no wonder civilizations have experiences so much hate routed in hate, greed, and power.
Cain and Abel are a picture also of works and grace. And also a picture of works under the law and faith.
And also Abel's sacrafice of the first fruits is the beginning of sacrifices in worship and attonement which God expanded i generations to come, which obviously pointed to Jesus.
I think you may be very condescending to people. You seem like a newer Christian Bible thumper. Even the 1st years combined with age those years can be harsh.
What denomination do you belong to?
It goes in line with faith and science
And doesn't really matter in regards to our Salvation.
But it may help in discussing with "atheist" that God is undeniable you still have nature jumping into being on day 5 and 6. The 1st 2 24 hour days. Which makes perfect sense because even atheist can't explain that jumping into being.
And as far as firmament that makes sense too.
"And water canopy makes real sense with the flood!
The sky's emptied of all that water and covered the earth.
Sounds very likely! So yeah thanks that's cool.
Scientifically there is data showing this time line that questions
God by atheists. Well if nature was going for whatever equivalent
of a day, whether it be 1000 years or 10,000 years is irrelevant.but
it also answers creation all of a sudden jumping into being. Even atheists have a difficult time explaining what we know happened
on day 5 or 6. So day 5 and 6 explain immediate presense of fish, birds, man, and animals.
Its actually not easily disputable in that light.
And the garden was separate to the "East"
So animals weren't confined to the garden.
And I'm not sure long Adam and Eve were in the garden.
But this is a logical explainion showing the world growing with forming vegetation and maybe even crawling bugs etc that are needed to reproduce vegetation. Maybe maybe not, He doesn't mention bugs in day 5 or day 6.
As far as expanse or firmament it offer a similar explanation, it still adds form to the earth suggesting it is round.
So then water separated by sky or atmosphere
So if you want to add space
Evening and morning are terms that mean day and night
And since 24 hours didn't exist yet they weren't divided by time as we know it.
When evening and morning are used the original means day night light dark without tome specific
Morning to morning and evening to evening are time specific because it speaks of time as time in day or night to same time day or night. From the rising of the Sun to the going down of the same the Lords name is to be praised
But morning and evening are general terms of during day or during night, or as in during light or during dark.
Psalm 30
5 For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for a lifetime;
Weeping may last for the night, But a shout of joy comes in the morning.
John 9: 4
4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
It's not adding to it. It's reading it.
There was no such thing as a 24 hour day till God put it in place on day 4.
I don't think it's a earth shattering doctrine to think ether way.
In other words not every opinion of scripture is concerning.
If you think they all are 24 hour days, that's fine.
But I'm reading it and see time didn't exist as we know it till day 4.
So day 5 was the 1st 24 hour day.
In Psalms and in Peter it says that 1000 years is as 1 day.
It's saying that God is not governed by time and both of these scriptures in context refer back to "creation" in a portion of its text.
So maybe Peter and David knew something about those "days."
Do you really think God was governed by time? By time that He put in motion on the 4 th day for the benefit of those who were created?
He literally placed lights in the sky to "govern" time.
Do you think anything "governs" God?
He is the ruler who placed time as He created to govern created things like us.
I'm excited about the texts, because it answers mysteries. And answers evolution some. And it shows scripture to be much more advanced in knowledge that ONLY could have been God inspired.
Day 3 the works had no sun to spin around, and no order to govern day and night,
And seasons, Going around the sun produced as we know it.
The author understood the lights in the sky and the movement of the earth followed days and also seasons. Pretty advanced thought.
Psalms 90
2 Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. 3 You turn people back to dust, saying, “Return to dust, you mortals.” 4 A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3
For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For [a]when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
Day 4 God created time to begin.
Day night hours seasons years.
The earth started spinning this day!
14 Then God said, “Let there be [s]lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for [u]lights in the [v]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two [w]great lights, the greater [x]light [y]to govern the day, and the lesser [z]light [aa]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [ab]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [ac]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
The curse following also gets interesting as you follow it through Cain and Abel
Cain and Able shows something different.
There are often sons compared through the prophets.
Cain and Able
"When the LORD accepted Abel's offering but not Cain's the latter became angry. God warned Cain about potential sin. But even so, Cain murdered Abel." (Gen. 4:4-9)
And God cursed Cain ...
Remember when I said before God we will both stand?
One will stand in their own hard hard work trying to please God and the other will stand in God's merit.
God favored the devotion of Able over Cain's and it drove Cain to murder Able.
But why wouldn't God favor hard labor to please Him? Because the fruits of flesh is cursed. Even the first fruits of cursed flesh can't please God. Because we are born from the cursed ground our 1st fruits regarding anything we do cannot please God!
Gen 3
"17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
"18 Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you And you will eat the plants of the field 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”
"22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life."
Cain worked harder on his sacrifice, and he sacrificed more because his sacrafice was out of his first fruits of hard hard labor.
Cain is working through the curse.
"23 therefore the LORD God sent him (Adam) out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken." (To cultivate the ground he was taken from that now God cursed) And that would be with thorns and thistles and sweat. The ground he came from will forever fight him, and he will forever fight the ground.
So when Cain offered from the ground, he was offering from that which is cursed, as man is dust, dust from ground, groud is cursed.
Yet Able's sacrafice from the 1st fruits of his flock pleased God.
The flock was a provision by God. He provided the creatures, and He multiplied them. So Able just gave back to God what was given.
Able simply cared and nurtured them. Yet his sacrafice pleased God over the fruits of hard labor. Why? Because Able's was from the provision of God, and from simply Able's love of care for the flock and love for God.
Cain was working by brute force. Working the cursed ground, toiling against the curse day in and day out working hard against that which is cursed.
Cain's sacrafice was his work, his hard work! Abel's sacrafice was from his love and not from hard work at all!
The 1st 24 hour day was on day 4 a tally the 1st full day would have been on the 5 th day.
And I didn't say anything about millions of years
There is a scripture that says 1 day is as 1000 years, 1000 years as 1 day to the Lord.
So that's a statement God isn't governed by time.
He created time to govern our days not His days
