A Civil Religious Debate

Yes there is proof.

Its called beyond a reasonable doubt. We try thousands of cases per day based on innocent or guilty beyond a " reasonable doubt"

I have evidence piled high that makes it proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Bible were on trial it would be guilty of being true beyond a reasonable doubt.

God wouldn't be a fair judicial judge if He hid the evidence and displayed unconfirmed testimony. Your testimony if from God would be confirmed by Him.

Just as He confirmed who Jesus was then. If He does not bear witness, then the testimony is false.

The Word Spirit and Father are a cord of three strands that cant be broken. A kingdom divided can't stand.

Its not the work of God to deceive, His light reveals.

He is judicial. In His courtroom He provides abundant evidence and testimony and witness. The truth is confirmed always! Witness confirming every fact.

I can that look at facts when discussing evolution, on which you have a credible degree of facts at the core of your foundation.

So then I ask in your facts of evolution can we find a Divine Intruder?

Whereas you dismiss facts of a Book based on unfactual and falsified information, and there isn't even a discussion to have beyond that because at the core foundation you accept false information, so when discussing your objection to the Divine Intruder in the study of History, your mythological falsified facts won' t allow a basic foundation of facts at minimum to build on.

So how credible is the facts you conclude against the Bible? a stance in opposition to the faith of others. Since your foundation of facts is piled up in inaccuracies and truely "myths" since they are based on untruths, isn't that what myths are?

So isn't it ironic to build a case on inaccuracies, then use inaccuracies to conclude a lack of credibilty, by which concluding what is myth?

The outcome of conclusion should at minimum be factual with accuracies to hold up at least it's foundation, especially if dismissing basic credibility of what faith is built on in the first place.

Skeptic scrutiny is not credible if you are blindly or conveniently accepting inaccuracies to dismiss accuracies, where by doing you dismiss faith by a foundation of inaccuracies.

Then let me tell you my experience of faith. Because I am an eyewitness of that. And its real, and I'm convinced.

My faith isn't based on a mental acknowledgement of a faith that I hope exists.

I have become convinced of faith by both reason and experience. And in understanding I see clearly, and

in my understanding I am convinced.

I would think it silly to deny your way in the world based on Hell or judgement, especially if you are NOT convinced of God, or if Hell or Heaven exists.

That's like saying Buy a wedding dress, rent the hall, and pay the caterer, even though you don't have a Bride, or Groom, or engagement, or even dating someone yet!

Jesus said count the cost! He actually wants us to be convinced of our decision to follow Him, and He wants us to go in to this relationship with Him, knowing we can pay the cost, knowing its worth it, and willing to pay the cost.

And no one does that unless their convinced. So Jesus says, I want you to be convinced, because your commitment to Me needs to be on solid ground! - wise man builds a house compared to the idiot that builds a house - both go through the storm, idiots house falls, the one who is solid is convinced and holds up through the storms.

The Rich Young Ruler WANTED to follow Jesus, He even agreed with His commandments! But Jesus says, cool you are almost there, one more thing .... the Rich Young Ruler wouldn't have worked out well, at least not making that commitment on that day, why?

Jesus didn't run after him and when the disciples were like Hey Jesus, this is bad for the saving business, no one will be saved if you keep that up! He taught them then, what is needed to make a child of Light, where your heart is, there is your treasure.

And He said people need to understand the cost, for some the cost may be someone, to others something, whatever you love He knows the heart ... Abraham loved Isaac, yet by his famous test, God said, do you love your Son more than Me?

And Abraham, you can imagine how distraught the scene was, and Abraham's grief leading up to that moment, God says pass! He counted the cost and was willing to pay every last penny he had serving God. Was he convinced? Or was his faith a guess?

So I never said this argument. I said count the cost, and be convinced. I showed you every reason to believe, and I added a very honest believable and relatable set of videos to satisfy your intellect. I showed you God's Word, confirming God's Word.

I showed you His character and sensibly showed you why darkness can't stand. And why the world's Woes have grown in the darkness of Satan's seed.

And I gave you my experience, which is wonderfully wise when I was a dumb ass 5 year old, 2nd grader, and and a merging rebel. And some other fabulous encounters that were realistic, without over spiritualizing every pee and poop I ever experienced.

I think people think faith is a guess. A lucky guess! We HOPE we are right, well that's not good enough!

That's actually not what faith is at all.

Faith is being CONVINCED of things not seen!

Without faith that is CONVINCED, it is impossible to please God!

Hebrews 11

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

2 For by it the men of old gained approval.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. ...

6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Romans 8: 37-39

37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,

39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are numerous calculations and measurements in the Bible from specific measurements in building designs instructed by God and in dates and times found the Bible.

Well I dont know why God put it there. Id imagine the book is so full of knowledge and wisdom and understanding that on one side its a confirmation that there is an outside influence and showing something that specific.

Even complete to the 4th decimal place in equations beyond the writers knowledge and ability. So it was a purposeful design to authenticate it. Or sign it as authored by more than the men that physically penned it.

Also God confounds the wise and mocks fools. So when the book is opened the foolishness of academia that denied God and caused multitudes to stumble and not seek God. When it is unrolled it will both mock and judge them. The blood of those they cause to stumble will be on their hands.

As far as the math itself, Im not a mathematician, so I can only think of known application as a lay person. Pi is measurements of a circle, inside out, and across etc...

pi appears in all sorts of calculations for physics, engineering, electrical systems.

The double-helix is DNA revolves around pi. Pi is in the rainbow, the pupil of the eye, and when a raindrop falls into water pi emerges in the spreading rings. It appears in colors and in music. It is also used in probability and statistics.

So I think the placement is not a calculation as in a word problem. But all incompassing of God's creation, intervention, judgement, and salvation. He brings creation full circle from creation to fall to our redemption.

Fullness of His dwelling. Complete measurement. God uses math and measurements within the scriptures also. Like measurements of the Noahs Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. And all kinds of measurements. So measurements and math are not foriegn to the actual reading of the written text.

So hidden in verse 1 of chapter 1 in Genesis and In John 1: 1 is profound and absolute design written by more than the pen of men!!

Gen 6 - Ark Measurements

14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.

17 Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

Romans 8

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And "e" found in John 1: 1 Would be measurements of exponential growth. Which is what happened bt the Jews initially rejecting the Messiah.

Causing it to go out to the Gentiles. But also prophesied to come full circle, and lift the veil. To make a round trip so to speak, to reveal to the Jews also so in the end they also see the Messiah as who He is, Jesus.

Completing His creation full circle! And His salvation saves exponentially.

In Bible Codes, some are far out and take it far out. But some are a signature of Divine Authorship. And these ones are definitely signatures as if He etched His Word with His own hand.

Pi found in Genesis 1: 1 and adv math e found in John 1: 1.

These aren't spread out, found in difficulty, and in need of twisting. These two adv math codes are found, each found using within one verse. And each one found separately in chapter one of two seperate books, written in two separate millennials, in written in two separate languages. And the nature of interpretation works with what is there from the ancient text.

And the odds of them occurring at any point at all within all 66 books of the Bible is in probabilities of unreasonable proportions.

What do you think is the probability of a few of these together found coded in the Bible? If just musing at first glance, wouldn't you say, " no way?" I'm not even saying in the whole Bible. What is the probability all these are found in only six books out if 66?

As for me, I dont think a calculation is needed to tell me that is an unreasonable probability in calculations of a snowflakes chance in Hell!

Even crazier, pi and e are coded in two different languages, Hebrew for Jews and Greek was a time period of the Gospel's progression out to the Gentiles.

And both verses state "In the beginning," so they each speak of a time period of Creation and in Jesus as the Creator. And advanced math equations not known yet for 1000s of years to come.

In Genesis 1: 1 pi equation is encoded, in creation of the world and universe and in God stitching prophesy into appointed times to bring Creation full circle.

And in John 1: 1 in Greek while the Gospel is propelled out to the Gentiles, you find in verse one the equation for e, which is compound interest, multiplying exponentially.

So even the equations found communicate the purpose of the event. And even the Bible Author God, divided these times by purpose as shown in the 1st verses of these two books, Genesis and John. Then to add to this timetables for dating history is BC and AD.

So the Bible notes each beginning with a math equation. Then took the division of time line for dating history. And then add TORH TORH YHWY HROT HROT in the beginning of each of the five books of the Bible at intervals of Bible numbers of importance in the written text throughout every book of seven and forty-nine .

These singuarly are a stretch against reasonable probability, but for all to be right there on the top, not buried or crazy, together all these are proof of God and His Word. All of these together are impossible odds without Divine Authorship. Together these are more than just an oooh wow, these are against odds of probabilities that are not even be conceivable.

Now in contradiction beween the improbability of two faiths.

A comparison between Christianity and Evolution as ecplanation of Creation.

So on one hand, Evolutionism states strands of DNA self assembled and mutated and against all odds of occurance and against all odds of science principles and without any evidence of a physical example in front of our eyes, we are told to believe it. And that it is factual.

Then you take just these few pieces of many in evidence, tangible and available to view in everyone's individual hands. With everyone having the ability to test it, and even count out the codes for themselves, and literally proving itself in person from the beginning and in person showing agsinst all odds He not only created, but He put it in writing against all odds to prove it!

You have to be evil or an idiot to at least not step back and say there is more to God and the Bible than I currently think. Maybe I should look further!

There are numerous calculations and measurements in the Bible from specific measurements in building designs instructed by God and in dates and times found the Bible.

Well I dont know why God put it there. Id imagine the book is so full of knowledge and wisdom and understanding that on one side its a confirmation that there is an outside influence and showing something that specific.

Even complete to the 4th decimal place in equations beyond the writers knowledge and ability. So it was a purposeful design to authenticate it. Or sign it as authored by more than the men that physically penned it.

Also God confounds the wise and mocks fools. So when the book is opened the foolishness of academia that denied God and caused multitudes to stumble and not seek God. When it is unrolled it will both mock and judge them. The blood of those they cause to stumble will be on their hands.

As far as the math itself, Im not a mathematician, so I can only think of known application as a lay person. Pi is measurements of a circle, inside out, and across etc...

pi appears in all sorts of calculations for physics, engineering, electrical systems.

The double-helix is DNA revolves around pi. Pi is in the rainbow, the pupil of the eye, and when a raindrop falls into water pi emerges in the spreading rings. It appears in colors and in music. It is also used in probability and statistics.

So I think the placement is not a calculation as in a word problem. But all incompassing of God's creation, intervention, judgement, and salvation. He brings creation full circle from creation to fall to our redemption.

Fullness of His dwelling. Complete measurement. God uses math and measurements within the scriptures also. Like measurements of the Noahs Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. And all kinds of measurements. So measurements and math are not foriegn to the actual reading of the written text.

So hidden in verse 1 of chapter 1 in Genesis and In John 1: 1 is profound and absolute design written by more than the pen of men!!

Gen 6 - Ark Measurements

14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.

17 Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

Romans 8

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And "e" found in John 1: 1 Would be measurements of exponential growth. Which is what happened bt the Jews initially rejecting the Messiah.

Causing it to go out to the Gentiles. But also prophesied to come full circle, and lift the veil. To make a round trip so to speak, to reveal to the Jews also so in the end they also see the Messiah as who He is, Jesus.

Completing His creation full circle! And His salvation saves exponentially.

In Bible Codes, some are far out and take it far out. But some are a signature of Divine Authorship. And these ones are definitely signatures as if He etched His Word with His own hand.

Pi found in Genesis 1: 1 and adv math e found in John 1: 1.

These aren't spread out, found in difficulty, and in need of twisting. These two adv math codes are found, each found using within one verse. And each one found separately in chapter one of two seperate books, written in two separate millennials, in written in two separate languages. And the nature of interpretation works with what is there from the ancient text.

And the odds of them occurring at any point at all within all 66 books of the Bible is in probabilities of unreasonable proportions.

What do you think is the probability of a few of these together found coded in the Bible? If just musing at first glance, wouldn't you say, " no way?" I'm not even saying in the whole Bible. What is the probability all these are found in only six books out if 66?

As for me, I dont think a calculation is needed to tell me that is an unreasonable probability in calculations of a snowflakes chance in Hell!

Even crazier, pi and e are coded in two different languages, Hebrew for Jews and Greek was a time period of the Gospel's progression out to the Gentiles.

And both verses state "In the beginning," so they each speak of a time period of Creation and in Jesus as the Creator. And advanced math equations not known yet for 1000s of years to come.

In Genesis 1: 1 pi equation is encoded, in creation of the world and universe and in God stitching prophesy into appointed times to bring Creation full circle.

And in John 1: 1 in Greek while the Gospel is propelled out to the Gentiles, you find in verse one the equation for e, which is compound interest, multiplying exponentially.

So even the equations found communicate the purpose of the event. And even the Bible Author God, divided these times by purpose as shown in the 1st verses of these two books, Genesis and John. Then to add to this timetables for dating history is BC and AD.

So the Bible notes each beginning with a math equation. Then took the division of time line for dating history. And then add TORH TORH YHWY HROT HROT in the beginning of each of the five books of the Bible at intervals of Bible numbers of importance in the written text throughout every book of seven and forty-nine .

These singuarly are a stretch against reasonable probability, but for all to be right there on the top, not buried or crazy, together all these are proof of God and His Word. All of these together are impossible odds without Divine Authorship. Together these are more than just an oooh wow, these are against odds of probabilities that are not even be conceivable.

Now in contradiction beween the improbability of two faiths.

A comparison between Christianity and Evolution as ecplanation of Creation.

So on one hand, Evolutionism states strands of DNA self assembled and mutated and against all odds of occurance and against all odds of science principles and without any evidence of a physical example in front of our eyes, we are told to believe it. And that it is factual.

Then you take just these few pieces of many in evidence, tangible and available to view in everyone's individual hands. With everyone having the ability to test it, and even count out the codes for themselves, and literally proving itself in person from the beginning and in person showing agsinst all odds He not only created, but He put it in writing against all odds to prove it!

You have to be evil or an idiot to at least not step back and say there is more to God and the Bible than I currently think. Maybe I should look further!

A message from the heart to debaters who fight in favor of evolution. Forst of all for the purpose of debate, clarity of terms is important.

Adaptation is not evolution no matter how you define it. The inclusive definition needs to be removed for the origin debate. So we are clear we are speaking from onset!

Adaptation takes a formed life form and adapts within its own fully formed makeup. It doesnt adapt by becoming a different creature.

Evolution defined as used to describe the establishment of life and nature as we sknow it is not adaptation. As a term used in the debate of Creator vs self creation of evolution.

So please stick to the definition. Adaptation is subtle. Evolution is creative in a foundational sense

Adaptation would be darkening of pigmentstion or lengthening a nose to adapt to changing atmosphere. But there is no drastic changes needed for evolution.

I dont argue and poke fun out of a dislike for you. I am hoping at some point you will question reasonably and logically some of the things you accepy as truth and isnt founded in science or logic or reasoning.

I am not being mean or cruel, I'm challenging you for a greater purpose, to question and weigh reasonably.

Like evolution starts aftwr life forms are already in process and builds on it, balancing nature in the process to foster the evolving life forms and to support its progressive action to its current presentation.

Yet when proof of the Bible has connections confirmed, in front of your face, it is denied.

Arent these connections similar. Yet at least with the Bible evidence is tangable and visible, and not just assumptive, as seen in the foundation of the biginning of life, the first life form that assembled itself to start with, then the balancing act needed to progress from the beginning.

Neither of these at the foundation are logical, no matter what biology connects similarities, and no matter what adaptations we see after the fact of a living thing at its completion.

There is only evidence of biological simillarites. Not sound science in the beginning of the first formed living thing. Nor in the balance required beyond that, with entropy working against it from the creation of the first cell, and naturally beyond that!

Creatures with eyes have eye genes. But its a big jump to then say life formed and stabilized out of nonliving matter.

Its a religion of idiots.

Its the greatest insult to the Creator. The actual creator.

Man being a god created himself out of a process from nothing.

Man breathed life into himself out of evolving from a combination of dead matter.

Not even another god, a nothing god ... the earth was void, unformed, darkness over the deep. Into nothing He brought forth life, into chaos He established the balance for life to continue.

And evolution is the god nothing. The self god, nature and man created self by selection of the best. The self made man, evolved from nothing.

.

https://youtu.be/mG37ysdWLWc

This is entertaining

Weigh the evidence!

If God exists, and His Word is credible, then yes, I wouldn't have a reason not to.

I don't know that we need to explain everything under the sun to establish if at the very least the Bible is credible in historical docomentation and pre-written history as documentation.

If all other things are accurate and truthful then it's reasonable to Consider Adam is also possibly just as credible.

https://youtu.be/mG37ysdWLWc

This is entertaining

Weigh the evidence!

My take on immorality is Eternal Life.

What is Light?

Can it be in three time periods at the same time?

Is there a place in the speed of light where time stands still?

Is God known as Light?

Does He give Eternal Life?

Did anyone writing the Bible understand the speed of light, or was that a scientific realization of modern day?

Then how or why would light and eternal life and Omnipresence meaning every where at once and Omniscience, knowing all things past present and future, why do you think light and these characteristics of the person who IS Light would somehow appear together, as characteristics found in God, who is The Light?

Again did these ancient writers understand the science of Light?

Reasonable doubt- this is credible evidence

It is not likely and is not usual - as a matter of fact it is HIGHLY unlikely and EXTREMELY unusual!!

Here is part of the historical event of Steven's Martyrdom

Notice his stoners coats were laid at Saul's feet.

Saul after murdering Christiand, has an unusual transformation and personally experienced an encounter with the Risen Jesus.

Saul goes from killing them to the greatest winner of souls. And by those actions fullfills PROPHESY!! And his dramatic conversion pushes the gospel out from his own countrymen to Gentiles, (other Nation other than Israel) and is well know even from those he was in league with while severely persecuting Christians.

Matt 24

14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Isaiah 11

10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious."

.

So like it, or not this IS reasonable evidence, and along with 2000 prophesies that have already been fulfilled in detail!

With only 500 to go, and some of those are in process!

Evidence FOR GOD is mounting!!!

Stephen was martyred as murders placed their coats at Saul's feet.

SAUL Later became PAUL, and went on to become a valiant Appostle of the faith he was a murderer in war against Christians!

What changed?

Acts 7

51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. 52 Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; 53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”

54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. 55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. 58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

Answer 1 - God? Your answer is a cop out, convenient answer, almost playing it safe - if there were such a thing. It's a response to a question that is answered without effort to seek an answer.

Answer 2 - Jesus? Your answer lacks real consideration and thought.

A forensic atheist decided to take the gospels and any other writings in and out of the Bible to find and expose lies, conspiracies, or whatever was at the bottom of this faith.

Forensic pros look for the lies and inconsistencies in writings, they piece together lies, and conspiracies through comparing documents, writing styles, and types of phrases or words used, and in comparing records, but with a specific focus to find and point out any falsified information.

A devout atheist, even raised as atheist, after looking at the gospels determined from the study, that without a doubt, the 4 gospels, are 4 individual writers, who all witnessed and recorded the same things as in a manner of one writing a truthful account by eye witness, and in clear consistet accounts from their personal experiences and memories.

Not just 1 small chapter, these accounts are chapters long of their eyewitness accounts. Details so impressive, they couldnt forget.

All the teachings and parables and miracles, they each saw and heard, and had witnessed themselves over a 3.5 year time period.

The previous atheist forensic said, Even the inconsistencies that do exist in the writings are actually affirmative indicators of the accounts are legitimate truthful documentations.

One example - Where one writer gives an account such as "the soldiers were slapping Jesus, saying tell us prophet, who just slapped you" one of the other gospel writers said the same exact story, but he added they blindfolded Jesus, and we're slapping Him, saying tell prophet who just slapped you"

As a forensic, he said those types of inconsistencies are actually truth indicators. They are accidental confirmations that the authors are at the same event, explaining the same details, but from different prespective and personalities. The 4 gospels, even if they were written right next to each other, the forensic testimony would be a testimony establishing the writers were being truthful, and were not inventing conspiracies or lieing.

But they werent even written next to each other, or even in the same years. Yet they all had the same experiences.

The letters, and other historical findings from the time period, are all saying the same things, indisputable evidence, that would literally hold up in any of todays court trials as evidence of the truthful documentations of all 4 accounts.

You would have to dismiss the evidence, as though it didn't exist

and then literally decieve yourself to think he was merely just a charismatic man. You would have to dismiss Jesus and all the facts and accounts surrounding Him, and dismiss all the writers along with their detailed eye witness accounts, and dismiss either the courage or insanity of the early Church who faced extremes in persecution, and also all the others in every age that followed them to also face the same, and also dismiss all the prophets, and all their detailed writings that told of Jesus' coming!

As far as through a Virgin, He is God!

! Historians say according to all items and writings found, that Jesus truely DID live during the time followers said He lived,

AND also He was Crucified.

! There was an intensity of unreasonable growth during extreme hostilities.

! Islam grew through its followers causing extremes to others and making converts by force, as those converted caved in easily under extremes of force, with numbers, and the force behind their movement gaining in strength!

But that's not the case in the early Church of Jesus' followers. It's the opposite, they were non-violent passevist, and adversity began when they were small, yet they grew in numbers anyway!

! There were a large number of prophetic "future tellers" concerning a someone coming that looks just like the person Jesus, with details of events He would have actually HAD to be God to coordinate, unless the All the Pharisees, Pilot, and Herod also were in on the conspiracy!?!?

! Faith in this charismatic but ordinary man grew so big in spite of extremes faced by everyday people in persecutions, that

All of Time and All of History is defined by His Birth! A.D. and B.C.

These where several over 4000 years. Who confirmed incredible details that they all got right. 100 % accuracy! If we had a psychic like that, she'd be rolling in dough in just a few short years, everyone would pay to know tomorrow, and a premium would be paid for such accuracy!

2nd You have the Eye Witnesses,

If we take 4 conspirators, and they can be as smart as Harvard graduates, or as dumb as punks ...

With interagationd and investigations, each of their stories would show mis-fitting details and they would quickly and EASILY fall apart.

Even in the conveniences of communication of our present day, regardless if conspirators practice, plan, and coordinate every alibi and lieing detail, forensics and investigators will almost always still break through it all, and will almost always find the little treads, that when pulled, unravel their spun stories.

Between just 2 people, or even just 1 person lies trip when looked at with scrutiny! If for just 2 people, or even just 1, keeping a lie is difficult, then how about 4, or 12 people?

How about 100's of people keeping the lies and the same stories?

Many of the first followers were people who where 1st hand eye witnesses.

Then add the pressures from intese persecutions, a constant threat and weight around their necks meant to crush and remove these "untrue stories." While Christians lived everyday life in these violent environments in the aftermath of the Crucifixion (and also the Resurrection.) And continued against them over many generations.

And you further decrease any ability for Christianity to have progressed beyond this 1st crew.

Historically factual accounts of loyalty are recorded among 1,000,000's of meek people, not pumped up terrorists infused with radical ideas of hate and vengeance, Not testosterone happy coloseum fighters. Not people trained for battle or engaged in wars. Mild mannered fathers and mothers, people of every age, from every walk of life. The basic fishermen, tradesmen, bakers, even tax collectors. Everyday people, throughout every part of those societies.

Under extreme pressures, MAYBE a few would have been able to persevere, and willingly become lion food rather than deny their faith in Jesus, but Jesus had to be pretty charismatic for all those people to follow Him to those horrific deaths.

Heck, I think being blown up by suicide vest, knowing it will be over in just a few seconds is actually a pretty cowardice martyrdom in comparison to some martyrdoms they endured in taking a stand for something as silly as faith in just a man any man! No matter how cool He was!

But, we are talking about many, many, many everyday people, who were living simple everyday lives, to become so loyal to faith in Jesus and for the things they learned and witnessed. To the degree they chose not to deny the Lord Jesus regardless of facing severe extremes in affliction, loss of their loved ones, loss of everything, imprisonment, unimaginable pains of torture, stoning, fed to lions, beheadings, and fire and still not change their stories and their faith. And still "hold on to their conspiracies and lies.

We are talking about people, given life choices like deny this whole story and go home and bake bread for you children, or be lion food for all to watch as Lions crush your bones and rip your limbs off!

They tought Jesus was more than just a man, more than even a great man. They died for a man who WAS technically already dead and gone! That is, if there was no Resurrection!