If there was such a supreme being as God, why would he hide himself from the world? And if we're talking about the christian God, why would he not show himself, but give eternal hell to those who don't believe in the story.

There are so many details like this one, that don't fit.

Am I suppose to know that from the text on the screen? :-)

No, that's why I informed you that I was a woman.

What argument at all do you have that world is "well programed, accurate and well designed"?

The eye itself has 1 chance in 50.000 to be what it is. If there is one different thing about the eye, it doesn't work.

No man has succeeded in making a machine as well programmed as the human being.

Where have you seen that argument before? In your posting!!!!!!!!! Are you having sudden case of demens?

I thought you accused me of using arguments based on things I read. That is not true, but if you didn't accuse me of doing so then let's move on.

And your point by stating the obiouvs is?

I can't remember, it's been a while since I debated with you, sorry.

I think it was something about that when a cell reproduces itself, the reproduction of that can be defect, that doesn't mean that the cell it was reproduced from is defect.

Two people can have a child with a disorder or disability - does that mean the parents are disable too, or have the disability themselves? No.

Some reproductions can be defect, that doesn't change the perfection of the original design.

I am not a fanatic. yes you are.

Explain why you think of me as a fanatic.

that world is not very "well programmed" place

I disagree, the human is the most well programmed thing we know of.

So after all this discussion only think you can come up with is you original claim that everything is so well :-).

Yes, things are good, don't be such a pessimist. Yes disease, sickness, death, war and I could go on exist. But there is good too.

And don't throw the cancer thing back at me - don't judge people who try to see some good in this world. Thank goodness some of the people here actually can see the benefits of life, instead of the bad stuff that it contains.

If there weren't bad things, we couldn't enjoy the good.

I am not irrational, I am human. I have no chance of escaping from the bad, so why not just try to see the good? You should try it some time.

Why? What proof do you have?

You should ask the other guy, who said that. What proof does he have to make such a statement? God probably doesn't exist, but does he undoubtily not exist? No.

No I didn't. You took up that about our cells being so well programmed, and I just disputed that claim, since it was clearly wrong. Unless you accept that all anomalies that our cell exhibit are also part of "well programmed" in your claim. But in that case it wouldn't be anomaly.

Because it is true.

Everything in works so well together.. everything just works and it is weird that it does.

Well, someone on the other side said God almost undoubtily does not exist. This is a very wrong assumption to make, because there is just as much chance that he does exist, than that he doesn't.

You disputed my argument with a total different thing, asking me about my belief - I answered.

it still does not proof there is God.

I didn't say that.

I never intended to prove God, even though it seems as if you think I was.

I don't feel the need to prove what I believe to anyone.

I say that life creates life. It happeneds every day man - it is called births!

But if life created life, what created the first life?

For the Christ man, these are your words:

Just look at the human body, how well programmed it is, look inside a human cell, watch the DNA and how accurate and well designed it is.

I am a woman, thank you.

I said it is well programmed, accurate and well designed. Is that necessarily perfect?

It does not; your shirt analogy is just bisarre exampel of a person who obviously has seen that argument somewhere and bought it naively and can't go beyond just repeating it blindly.

Where have you seen that argument before?

No it is not appropriate analogy, because according to you God would create each and every of human cells over and over and over again from the blueprint which we know does not happen. At least I am created by my parents, but maybe you are made in a laboratory who knows.

Cells reproduce, not produce.

Your shirt analogy would imply that god sits all days long and prints humans, animals, rocks, trees, planets and everything else each and every day and sometimes he fucks up since some are born with 6 fingers, but its ok according ot your theory, because everybody can make misstake; even allmighty god that created everything

Then you have misunderstood my analogy. I said God created one original thing, those things reproduce themselves, and those things can make an imperfect or defect copy.

it would certainly be better world without religious fanatics.

I am not a fanatic. I have never said my theory is the absolute truth. I have never said everyone should believe what I believe. Go throw that on somebody's elses face, thank you.

Because it makes more sense than your ID poop

Oh.. I see. Now it all makes sense. My opinion is wrong, because your opinion makes more sense to you.

Sorry dude, the world doesn't work that way. That's bad debating :)

That's like saying apples tastes better than oranges, because you think so.

it is called life.

So you say life created life?

cancer is gods creation and thus perfect

Why can't God create something imperfect? Why do you assume everything God makes is perfect?

but we know that cancer is ill-reproduced human cells because of imperfections in DNA.

Which proves my shirt analogy.

You reproduce something, and the reproduction is imperfect. Just because the reproduction is imperfect doesn't mean the original production is imperfect.

You agree that all cells are individual cells, right? So just because my cells are defected, does that mean yours are too?

No, each and every cell is an individual cell, a reproduction of the original thing. And the reproduction of that original cell can be defected, thus is that defected particular cell imperfect, not all cells.

If I have diabetes, does that mean because you are a fellow human being, you too have diabetes? No, we are two separate people with separate bodies and separate cells.

Instead you could realize that universe has always existed

You sound like you say your theory is absolutely true. Why do you want me to realize something you can't prove?

But it is not creepy to you that DNA and cells are reproducing themselves? :-)

Yes it is, don't you think it's creepy that things just magically reproduce themselves.

Well, creepy or not, it does not matter what your liking of the idea is; the point is that your argument is false and your analogy make no sense; you are comparing apples and oranges.

What part of my argument is false?

My analogy is that I believe there is a God - I don't know why this makes less sense then there is no God.

Furthermore, if something makes sense to you, you should be able to know why does it make sense.

I know why.

I think things that magically appear is called magic - not science.

You analogy with shirt breaks since a new copy of the shirt is new creation and involves same process from the beginning (a man in the middle, which can be you or somebody else), whereas DNA reproduction does not. Shirts does not reproduce themselves, each and every copy is created a new by a creator (you). So either cancer, and all other diseases, are a part of perfect creation and thus are "perfect and well programmed" as you claim, or your creators creation has flaw and thus is not perfect.

English is not my first language, there is a word I'm looking for that I can't seem to find in my head :)

But I am going to try to explain what I mean.

Inside a sell there is another thing, called something I don't know, where the copying of the DNA takes place.

This is not something I believe, this is a fact - DNA's are being copied, not created again.

You subjective refusal to believe something or acceptance of something is not proof of anything.

I know that, I never tried to prove my belief.

The point is if there was a creator and his creation is perfect it would not change and evolve

Why?

creation was not perfect since it evolved into more complex forms.

Let's take the shirt again.

Shirts don't just .. appear. You make them. There is a process you'll have to go through in order to make them. First they are just useless fabric, then you use that fabric to make the shirt.

The fabric itself is not a perfect shirt in any way - but it can make a perfect shirt.

Can you accept that mater and energy has always existed?

Can you accept that mater and energy has always existed? Never created, never destroyed. Is is pretty much like a concept of God but without a God actually.

I don't belong to a religion. I'm not christian, I'm not jewish.

I just believe something created our world. What it is I have no opinion on.

I don't understand how can you not ask yourself what created god otherwise :).

Whatever you believe, there has to be something that was everlasting. No matter if you're atheistic or religious, the entire thing has to start with something. So no matter what you believe, you will have to ask yourself, but .. what created that thing Get what I mean?

I'm not saying atheists are wrong, I'm just saying that theory doesn't make sense to me. And I never tried to convince you to believe anything. I think we could all have our own theories on what happens without making others believe it.

That's just what makes sense to me.

The shirt I was talking about.. to me it would have been real creepy if the shirt sowed itself, rather than me sowing it.

Well you said we are "well programmed" and that DNA is "accurate and well designed".

Does it not mean than that you consider bone cancer to be well programmed as well

Why do you assume that?

Imagine I made a beautiful shirt, that was perfect in every way.

Then I made some people make several copies of the same shirt, to sell to people.

Now some of the copies weren't exactly alike. Maybe some shirts had holes in them, others were discolored, or whatever you can come up with.

Just because some shirts were flawed, does that make the original design flawed and imperfect?

Why would they than change and evolve if they were so well programmed?

I believe a God of some kind made it happen:) I don't have proof of this, this is my personal theory of what happened. Because I just can not accept that everything came from nothing - that is magic to me.

So you think that brain cancer is well programmed feature by the God? As well as Down syndrome and CP? Do you mean that leukemia is accurate and well design?

I never said God is good. I never said God can't make mistakes either, I never said the system God created is perfect. I don't think it is meant to be perfect.

Tell me what proof do you have that DNA and human body is not a result of ever ending process of improvement?

Do you mean evolution? If you mean evolution, I have no intentions of disproving it because it is a well known fact.

I saw one argument ''he almost undoubtedly does not'' .. be careful to make such a claim.

Just look at the human body, how well programmed it is, look inside a human cell, watch the DNA and how accurate and well designed it is.

To say that that came from nothing is not science, it is magic.