KNHav's Waterfall
If I give you something to think about would you?
Or is your 1st thought how to argue it?
Read it! Then read it again trying to understand it. Because it's actually just a snippet that's pretty mind blowong.
Remember story of Cain and Abel?
How about Isaac and Ishmael?
Here is something not popularly known about Cain and his family tree.
Cain is the (1st generation), and he fathered
Enoch (2nd generation) Cain built a city named after his son Enoch, then Irad (3nd generation), Mehujael (4th generation)
Methushael (5th generation) root words of his name
Methu = Death / Shael = Sheol
Lamech (6th generation) - 6 the number of a man, this maybe a message of insight here!
Especially compared to the geneology of Seth!
Cain murders 1 and lies to God, Lamech murders 2 and brags about it to 2 wives, after he killed a man and a boy in vengeance, while declaring even greater severe vengeance!
Lamech also marries 2 Wives, which is not what God commanded He made them male and female... to become one flesh!
In the geneolgy of Cain, there is an Enoch # 2.
And, there is also an Enoch # 7 in Seth's geneology. - God takes his son # 7 Enoch to Heaven without dieing, while Cain dead in this world names a city after his son Enoch.
(Seth of course is Abel's "replacement" as stated by Eve "since Cain murdered him")
So in the 6th generation of Cain, Lamech the direct son of a man whose name means death-sheol sings praise of murder hear what he says ...
Genesis 4
23 Lamech said to his wives,
“Adah and Zillah,
Listen to my voice,
You wives of Lamech,
Give heed to my speech,
For I have killed a man for wounding me;
And a boy for striking me;
24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
FYI Ishmael wasn't a mistake, he also was born at the
"appointed time"
God say "at the appointed time" over and over and over again, such as in when fulfilled promise to Abraham and Sarah "when" conceived Isaac "at the appointed time" then there is the story to us ... when Abraham was "100 years old" He fathered Isaac ... and "86" When "Ishmael" was born.
Here is a very important prophesy given to Ishmael's "Egyptian" mom "
"Sarai treated her (Hagar) harshly, and she fled from her presence.
7 Now the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.”
10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply
your descendants so that they will be too many to count.”
11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,
“Behold, you are with child,
And you will bear a son;
And you shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.
12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him,
And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”
Does this sound like anything to you???
Umm yeah, it's a prophesy that grows, and is part of Israel's history up till end time prophesies fulfilled in final days.
Now this is a prophesy showing Israel's enemies, and every nation's part in it!
How telling!
Well these specific events and time periods are time setters designed by God "in completeion" of all His work!
And every detail we need to guide us is literally in the Bible everywhere, in everything, every story, every parable!!! Even in geneologies, what I've seen in Genesis from Adam to Noah and through Cain's geneology is end times mindblowong! Along with many other things that I've seen in Genesis.
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Jesus was not ever coming on the "2000 year Millenial" like many thought whit hype of computers shutting down etc ... if you remember that hype. (And fyi, I didn't buy into that hype at all!) But now I do see a time that is pretty much a clear "appointed." (believe
Its a time to get His people ready, and a breathing space that many Christians will take as "peace and safety!" While His true people get to work, and this is in about 5 parables Jesus told .... and in prophesies from Genesis to Revelations!
I mean amazing!!
When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!
The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!
Sure and if you understood it you would too.
When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!
The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!
Please read
When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!
The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!
Everyday of creation is a 1000 years of time till He establishes His Kingdom and ushers in His 7th day "rest" as His 1000 year reign, while He establishes New Jerusalem.
It's the time period of letting the earth sit for its day of rest, while His children also rest for 1000 years, before finally bringing His final Kingdom to earth "The New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21.
God say "at the appointed time" over and over and over again, such as in when fulfilled promise to Abraham and Sarah "when" conceived Isaac "at the appointed time" then there is the story to us ... when Abraham was "100 years old" He fathered Isaac ... and "86" When "Ishmael" was born.
Here is a very important prophesy given to Ishmael's "Egyptian" mom "
"Sarai treated her harshly, and she fled from her presence.
7 Now the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.”
10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply
your descendants so that they will be too many to count.”
11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,
“Behold, you are with child,
And you will bear a son;
And you shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.
12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand will be against everyone,
And everyone’s hand will be against him,
And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”
Does this sound like anything to you???
Umm yeah, it's a prophesy that grows, and is part of Israel's history up till end time prophesies fulfilled in final days.
Now this is a prophesy showing Israel's enemies, and every nation's part in it!
How telling!
Well these specific events and time periods are time setters designed by God "in completeion" of all His work!
And every detail we need to guide us is literally in the Bible everywhere, in everything, every story, every parable!!! Even in geneologies, what I've seen in Genesis from Adam to Noah and through Cain's geneology is end times mindblowong! Along with many other things that I've seen in Genesis.
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Jesus was not ever coming on the "2000 year Millenial" like many thought whit hype of computers shutting down etc ... if you remember that hype. (And fyi, I didn't buy into that hype at all!) But now I do see a time that is pretty much a clear "appointed." (believe it or not, Trump is even in there!!)
Its a time to get His people ready, and a breathing space that many Christians will take as "peace and safety!" While His true people get to work, and this is in about 5 parables Jesus told .... and in prophesies from Genesis to Revelations!
I mean amazing!!
And from what I see it was NOT on the 2000 year anniversary of His birth, which was year 2000, (actually year 1996, because historians realized AD and BC are actually off by 4 years - imagine that, God may have purposely allowed this to provide a "delay" - as is mentioned many times throughout parables - "while the master delayed" or
"Bridegroom delayed"
"No man knows hour or day" as Jesus said! - But He pain stakingly did say when we see times and seasons we will KNOW! In other words in Matt 24 He literally giving instructions! Detailing things, where to look, and telling us as time gets near there are appointed times and signs and seasons to understand in the Bible that correlate to what we see in history and current events.
Because the times are literally in there. And as time gets closer ... He is revealing .... and even says "revealing" things would be done at appointed time!
6000 years from Jesus' Death and Resurrection, is the TIME!
Not on the day or hour, but in that time period. We are in the end of day 6!
Every 1000 years is a day!
It's a scripture starement in Peter and also in Psalms! And if your read Ecclesiastical A time foe everything chapter, it shows appointed times, along with its object lesson.
Each 1000 years is a time keeper of events ... from putting Cain and Abel in, to replacing Abel with Seth to the births of Isaac and Ishmael into the world and into the timeline, to prophesying every single thing!
So one thing I see is, the 2000 year anniversary of the 1st Resurrection which is 2029 to 2033 is the approximate date (its a marker, could be before or after, but its around this marker in the prophesy timeline) declaring the final acts of this world, and the fulfilling of the prophesies of the "2nd Resurection"
(So it makes sense that if the last act is like the 1st act which is related in every way, to be a like time of final fulfillment on the Millenials (each 1000 years!)
When he comes with a trumpet raises the dead and transforms the saints living into glorified bodies for the 7th day - 1000 year Millenials reign!!
And it's spelled out! Hidden being revealed now!
Babylon is US. And the kings in Daniel are stages of Us growth to destruction! It correlated to Ezekiel and Revelations and Matt 24 and every where else as threads to see times and purposes!
Ear to hear, eyes to see will be blessed ... everyone else is blinded because its a riddle!
So Creation verses Evolution is a blindness and a distraction to many.
The point is not whether God chose to do it in 24 hours, or millions of years, and even if the Nithilum were civilizations of prehistoric men, God made man in "His image" when He made Adam ...!
That is a story of God's creation of His children ... and setting in motion every detail to be written we ever needed to know to be redeemed, and then changed into a nature of glorified bodies that CAN live in the His holiness and His light, so that we CAN live with Him forever.
While the rest of the world and its inhabitants from the beginning of time who missed out, are woken also to join in for this world's final destruction. ie.. Sheep / goats etc... to never exist again.
What would it be like if God didn't really exist, if there was no Maximality and no Maximum Greatness Potential?
Without any basis of standard of Maximality qualities?
If there is no basis for Conscience without a Maximality to define and establish a standard of conscience, then how does conscience exist, and an even more disturbing question, why is it exclusive to 1 species? So then why would conscience exist among humanity, yet not exist in any other living thing produced in the same possible world?
Wouldn't it make sense that if conscience was evolved, that there would be further samplings of conscience in the same possible world?
1 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
2 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
3 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
4 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!
5 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!
6 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!
7 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.
The rule of logic leading to Maximum Greatness, by standards of Maximum Excellence.
Qualities pertaining to Maximum Excellence in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness is determined by the highest possible Evolution in any and every possible world.
Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!
1 Maximum Greatness exists in any and every possible world.
2 Maximum Excellence exists in every possible way relative to the greatest or at the very least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.
3 If any of the possible worlds consists of only ants and bugs, then Maximum Excellence is whatever qualities are necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in that possible world.
4 So Maximum Excellence is relative to the greater or at least minimum applications necessary to achieve highest evolution of Maximum Greatness for any and all possible world.
5 Maximum Excellence entails the application of qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness relative to any and every possible world.
6 There exists a Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.
7 Maximum Excellence as Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection are relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in every possible world.
8 What is impossible in one possible world, may be be possible in other possible worlds.
9 What is possible in one possible world may be impossible in another possible world.
10 The proposition, there exists an Omnicient, Omnipotent, and Morally Perfect Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in an actual possible world.
11 So the conclusion is there must be a Maximum Excellent Being in any and every possible world that has the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection relevant to the acievement of highest possible evolution in Maximum Greatness in that actual possible world .
12 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
13 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
14 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
15 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!
16 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!
17 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!
18 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.
It all comes down to these questions.
What is necessary for any world to exist?
What is necessary for any world to exist, and without this which is necessary then no possible world could exist?
What is necessary for any possible world to exist?
What is the 1st piece needed beyond the last known layer?
When we peel back every layer down the nucleus of the base core, the final layer out of which all things began, what is necessary for our actual world?
So if we peel back to 1st speck, back to evolutions 1st spark of energy that started the chain reaction of all creation would have to have every building block of our creation, the complexity of our entire world, to the highest possible form of possible evolution achieved, with every detail contained in a speck the size of rhe 1st spark, the size of a mustard seed.
A few interesting rambling thoughts:
Jesus discussed faith the size of a mustard seed could move mountains into the sea. So If our faith is that powerful for us, what is God able to do with a mustard seed???
Its a funny thing that Jesus referred to the kingdom as going through an eye of a needle, and also as a mustard seed.
And Speed of light we now know, and I don't actually grasp.
But I grasp enough to see a connection He is light, there is NO darkness in Him. He is eternal life and the light.
In the New Jerusalem there will be only day. Are light years days in heaven talked about from almost every prophet?
1 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified
2 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.
3 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!
Your kind of messed up about women and your limited on the subject.
Your like wandering in the desert holding so tightly to little when there's so much more in the Word
I'm not discussing the subject with you any more.
Its not worth doing till you are open.
Did you listen to the audio.
It should help you in in relating to women in discussing scriptures.
http://cbesydney.org.au/2015/05/
I had to look up your whole sentence LOL!
You must be brainy!
Thanks for mentioning it, I hadn't heard of it before.
I love this easy to understand clip I have linked showing
the Modal Ontological Argument by Alvin Plantinga.
I love the logic to answer absurd arguements mentioned in the video are arguments commonly given. And they leave me thinking "duh that's a ridiculous argument" not apples to apples. They points are crude, undefined, unthought out nonsense arguments that leave me feeling like there is no intellegent work in their answers to disprove the existence of God by people who use broad strokes taught to them in evolution and nonsense argument when it comes to and how did the 1st speck appear?
http://www.strangenotions.com/
So I was really glad to hear this argument because it comes down to a bottom line that clearly compares ridiculous to logical. So now I can put that feeling to words and show them why their argument is ridiculous compared to a true logical answer.
Judas didn't buy the field the Pharisees did, and the payment was to murder Jesus not to murder Judas!
5 Then Judas threw the silver coins down in the Temple and went out and hanged himself.
6 The leading priests picked up the coins. “It wouldn’t be right to
put this money in the Temple treasury,” they said, “since it was payment for murder.” 7 After some discussion they finally decided to buy the potter’s field, and they made it into a cemetery for foreigners. 8 That is why the field is still called the Field of Blood.
9 This fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah that says,
“They took the thirty pieces of silver—
the price at which he was valued by the people of Israel,
10 and purchased the potter’s field,
as the Lord directed.”
Here is a Biblical presentation which curiously goes through examples of women as prophets and teachers and also goes into the attitude of hearts in women and men.
Please listen to the audio
http://cbesydney.org.au/2015/05/
http://newlife.id.au/
So all women are decieved and there is no truth in them.
Are we not heirs also???
You can't see anything wrong with the attitude of your heart in matters relating to women?
You are using scriptures to defend a faulty sinful attitude.
Go talk to your pastor, your supposed to be under them.
And you need help through this to see clearly.
You use scripture to say you are right because you are a man, and I am wrong because I must be decieved because I'm a woman.
And that's not ridiculous in your mind.
You are literally doing what Adam did the woman.you made is decieved so I am only right or wrong based on her being decieved
Honestly you need to never use those scriptures because you use them to sow fig leaves.
Truth is to set free! Not put down into submission.
1st of all look at the Scripture a women is supposed to subject herself.... Not a man is supposed to subdue!
Your attempt with scripture is to subdue. To rule over, to be right!
2 Tim 2
22 Run from anything that stimulates youthful lusts. Instead, pursue righteous living, faithfulness, love, and peace. Enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.
23 Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. 24 A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. 25 Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.
And I must tell you your error with the use of your scriptures about women.
Ready here it is...
You use it to say you are right in your doctrines because you are a man. Those scriptures ABSOLUTELY do NOT mean you are right because you are a man. That is a sin of pride, and its just as screwed up in doctrine as it can get regarding women.
1st of all I assume I am a good bit older than you, and I think there is something about older women being looked at as mothers able to guide in spiritual matters and practical matters.
2nd of all we are not IN church together and you are just a man discussing scripture with a woman.
You are not my husband
Not my pastor
Not a leader in my church
And you logic is EXTREMELY faulty, because by what you are saying... a woman should cover their head, is that by every man?
Even antiChrists? Even false teachers? Who determines which men have authority over women? Well it must be all????? Really??????
You being a man and me being a woman is irrelevant here.
If there is any relevance you should look to my maturity as an older woman as honorable!
1 is simply being respectful and giving honor for age and maturity.
But you as a man DO NOT cover my head in ANY Biblical context!
So please drop that foolish argument with me it doesn't and will never carry any authority over me as a Christian or as a woman.
I have a husband I have my head covered.
And we are not in church. And I don't subject myself to authority God did not designate.
Ok?
So argue my points. Or don't talk to me because I'm a woman
Your choice!
As in maturity I have you by age and most likely I am more mature spiritually also. At least currently. My assumptions are from our conversations, and what I've seen in your post in general.
You need to grow. I've been around as a Christian for 30 years, I've seen almost every attitude within your post, sometimes even in myself.
I'm not being mean, I'm telling you knowing growth happens, and some times its a 2 step, 1 step forward and 2 steps back. But eventually you do- se- do
In a sense you are correct and then the rest you are incorrect.
Conscience is both men and women.
Women are unique from men in that they can be decieved more easily emotionally. Its the nature of both beasts.
Men being more objective and task oriented, often have women at a disadvantage emotionally. AND no degree of feminism will change it. And they try! The push to equalize a physical relationship.
Guys and gals will always be different on processing it.
Usually the girl thinking more than the guy, being decieved.
The girls who fight so hard to dull their consciences, have to devalue themselves to achieve it. And it hurts them no matter how they act on the outside. They are decieved by denial.
But man is a term of humanity
Both man and wo-man.
So you have to consider context in your conclusions
Ahh lots about Judas!
Provide 20 - we see Jesus the friend who is faithful and wounded
And Judas offers the false kisses of an enemy !
Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.
Remember Joseph, the favored child of Jacob, the other name for Jacob, later given the name Israel?
Do you remember how the brothers beat him and left him for dead, then sold him?
Only to have Joseph save them even after their betrayal. And to be in a position of power because of betrayal, to then save them from an extreme famine?
That's a picture of Jesus being rejected by Israel and being betrayed by a payment. And then forgiveness to Israel and offering Salvation despite their cruel behavior.
A clearer prophesy specific to Judas -
Pharisees were shepherds of the Jews, they were their pastors,
This is a word of God saying how little value they placed on Him.
They paid 30 pieces of silver. The Pharisees had all this memorized, you'd think they could have changed prophesy, right? Yet they couldn't and didn't!
Zechariah 11
10 I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was [r]broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of the Lord. 12 I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. 13 Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.” So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the Lord.
So now consistency and no contradiction.
We have Judas who is know to betray.
Jesus mission was to die on the cross and rise in 3 days!
So He followed the prophesied of how when and why.
If you think it's a contradiction to choose the betrayer, then you don't understand prophesy. Prophesy is what will happen, not what may happen, or changeable in some way.
Prophesy is a word that comes TRUE!
So it would make make prophesy untrue to deviate from what is prophesied. And since there was no lie in Him, He could not deviate from the TRUTH of prophesy. Afterall, Jesus is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us!
The word says:
Isaiah 55
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
So where is this contradiction, or inconsistency?
I think I showed the same thing from 3 authors Matt Mark and John and its in Luke too.
All authored these writings at different times in different places recounting their memories without conferring with each other to make sure they all spun the same story.
Think of it like this you have 3 guys rob some stores. And 1 clerk gets shot. The 3 bozos put their heads together and construct a story, all agreeing to the same false story.
How does that usually work out when they actually have to state lies during different times of the investigation?
But if the 3 guys actually told the truth, the whole truth. There is no deviation because details are recalled as memory. Not memorized with a conflict to their memories.
See when people lie together there are 6 accounts present in the mind. 3 true accounts and 3 fabricated accounts.
That's hard to do, even in a short term with coordination, and it almost always gets mucked up!
But 3 truth accounts are a piece of cake. You may have a different prespective from each. But they dont usually contradict each other.
Most times even with a different prespective if truth is being told the picture of the scene can be reconstructed from either prespective giving an accurate picture of the event.
The Bible is historical and preknown events, with scriptures detailing information to us that we need to know in order to successfully follow a path to God. And to be children of God, and to eventually live eternity with Him in a New Heaven and a New Earth as this one will eventually be destroyed.
This is a conversation Jesus had before His betrayal.
We see Jesus knowing 1 will betray and knowing the 1 who betrays will condemn himself by his own conscience!
9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You.
Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
The Disciples in the World
13 But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.
Jesus also prophesied they will strike the Shephard and the sheep will be scattered. That's exactly what happened. It was a commotion. Like us, even though Jesus was right in front of them telling them the order of events, the itinerary, they still were caught off guard. Peter cut off an ear of the soldier, the followers were going nuts, then they fell back feeling their lives also would be taken. They were scared! Yet most of them later faced severe situations of imprisonment, being fed to lions, lost their heads, stoned, murdered! Peter was the only one that I know of that was also crucified. And Jesus pre-telling told to Peter this would be his way of following Him in death.
In John 21 - Its interesting also Jesus makes Peter answer 3 times of his devotion.
So we see Jesus saying He will betray 3 times, and also profess his devotion 3 times. Jesus knowing that when Peter is strengthened he will tend sheep like Jesus did, and will follow Him in death.
John 21:
Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.
18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go.” 19 Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me!”
So not only did Jesus pre-tell both Judas' and Peter's betrayals to accuracy, He also decided to pre-tell both of their ends!
He didnt tell everyone their end. But these 2 were purposeful prophesy as a comparison.
He told of Judas' betrayal with a kiss, and then Judas' remorse leading to his condemnation of conscience, and then to his death.
He wasn't martyred in love and devotion. He lost his life in his own self condemnation. A few things here - you seem to know scriptures a bit, so I won't look email all up, feel free to look up at Biblehub.com "They honor Me with their lips, BUT their hearts are far from me."
Then Peter, Jesus asks 3 times for a declaration of love, and comforts Peter, as if to make sure Peter's conscience endures what is to come, so the guilt of portrayal wasn't Peter's final story.
And how humbling to say such big talk, only to be made a fool of within yourself. We all have that thing where we hold our heads and say how could I ... well this was one of Peter's times.
Big talker to failure, to being empowered by God's Spirit and then follow to the point of being crucified also!
So where is this contradiction, or inconsistency?
I don't understand the example as a inconsistency or as a contradiction
Judas betrayed Jesus, not sure what was in his mind in the betrayal,
Some say it was political, Judas may have thought pushing Jesus into this would force Him to take a political stand. Others think Judas was a greedy miser and 30 pieces of silver was significant to further whatever Judas justified it with.
We see conflict within him, which is typical human nature we see everday! Someone makes a mistake, is overwhelmed within their conscience. Obviously Judas had this conflict. He took the money. Identified Jesus by a kiss, and when He saw the events unfold, which he may not and probably didn't fully anticipate, it freaked him out. Doesn't that happen everyday a thousand times over. We make a decission to do something with a preconceived idea of its unfolding and outcome, only to find we were just a part of making a mess we didn't intend?
But Judas still did betray, and he didn't do what Peter did.
See you actually have a side by side comparison of that day. It's like a season of "24 Hours"
Two disciples betrayed that day!
Both were prophesied before it happened.
Judas was prophesied by Jesus as a general comment, He said 1 would betray me ... And also Judas' betrayal was prophesied
a few times in the Old Testament when prophets were foretelling
of the Messiah's death.
Peter, THE ROCK, also betrayed Jesus!
Jesus said to Peter, this day before the rooster crows you will deny me 3 times.
But then Jesus also prophesied to Peter, that Peter would be strong after that, and then will ultimately follow Jesus in death.
And Peter also was crucified later.
As far as Judas throwing the money, and them taking it to buy a field. It was spent assets and they used it in that manner.
Matt 27
Judas’s Remorse
27 Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death; 2 and they bound Him, and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor.
3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty [a]pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.” 7 And they conferred together and [b]with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “And [c]they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel; 10 and [d]they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”
Conscience is unique to man.
If you say conscience is conditioning, well just like the 1st act of creation was a burst of light or black hole of gravity, and the question never answered who created that 1st reaction.
Isn't nothing even something?
If something didn't exist then how then can nothing exist?
So if conscience was created by conditioning who set up the 1st conscience?
And if man isn't unique then what other creatures have also learned conscience?
And after you tell me about those creatures tell me how they passed conscience on to their dependents?
Or tell me how any other creature can also learn to have a conscience.
If we are just creatures and we developed our own conciences and then conditioned other consciences, isnt it reasonable to think there has to be at least a few other creatures that also can be taught to develope a conscience.
Memories, hmm not just education. Just memory, which other creatures have a memories like us.
I can shoot water at a cat every time she jumps on the counter, eventually she knows water hits me whenever I go up on the counter. But that's not memories.
Even animals that have instinctive memories are not like our memories. An ape may notice another ape is missing, but even that is instinct. They instinctively live in families. But the don't remember like us. A dog may forever be lol to a dead owner. But still not memories like ours. A sea turtle instinctively knows it's way back to land. But that's still instinct.
Our memories we can command, and reminiscing a past person or event. Attaching emotion to our memories.
Even the ape has memory but by instinct, but not a conscience or memories and the command of memories the same thing?
When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"
Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"
Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.
If God exists who is man to question Him. Who is man to demand proof or to demand anything from God.
If He is content to create us, then shouldn't us existing be our lot in life. If we are just assembled then what is soul and what is conscience?
Besides humanity what other species has a conscience.
Conscience is right or wrong. Well you can train right and wrong.
You can train a mouse the right way through the maze to get the cheese.
You can train a dog to obey and do tricks.
Dog lovers they love you! Right? Sure they have an instinct that considers you part of the pack. They have loyalty and they live to please you, and look quilts when they tear up your couch cushions.
God made animals and brought them to Adam and no suitable help mate or companion was like him. So God made animals and even offered them as companions and help mates, but He said not suitable to be like him.
The dog does love you, but there is not really conscience, there is instinct. And the guilt he feels is a conditioned response to the reaction of displeasure he is aware of when you come in. Or he is aware every time he does this behavior it brings displeasure.
But conscience isn't just instinct. It isn't even a conditioned response.
Our consciences exist independently. We are born with a conscience, we become aware of it as we grow.
Conscience is either dulled or made sensitive.
But it existed before being molded.
Conscience can be effected by disease or environment.
But these factors have to alter the conscience we are born with.
Every decission made affecting conscience that is made in the mind isn't an act of conscience.
An act is taken disregarding conscience or in light of conscience.
Example Hitler actions weren't a result of conscience, they were a result of depravity of conscience.
Whatever was put in or pushed through Hitler was an act of depravity silencing his conscience.
Pharoah in the Moses story " let my people go" is a Bible example of a hardened heart, or conscience. A conscience can be dulled to the point of depravity. But still we all have 1.
I'm sure there was even a line Hitler wouldn't cross because of whatever was left of his conscience. Maybe he was dull there was no line left.
The question is, Did the big bang send our consciences?
What else in creation has a conscience?
A conscience can haunt someone, nag at someone, cause guilt, or justice, or cause freedom, take a stand, or take a fall.
Its something that can feel.
Its something that attaches emotion to our actions and our choices. It is the why and the motive of the heart not of the head.
Its the final say when making a list of available choices when consequences have a deeper effect than eating a piece of cake or a piece of fruit.
Our consciences isn't our preferences or our likes and dislikes.
Its a place inside that feels the choice. A piece of cake could be conscience if it's someone else's cake, or if your on a diet and cheating.
But see its a feeling about the action.
Most of us don't feel anything about our piece of cake.
Now if it's double chocolate and makes you think of mom, and you remember how you hurt her when you ran away, thats conscience.
If there is not a God then how do we exclusively have a conscience?
The Bible says God breathed life into the man and he was created a living soul.
It also says God wrote the law on our consciences so no one would have an excuse.
The 1st act of wronged conscience was Adam and Eve hiding in the garden. There is no need to hide if your conscience has nothing to hide.
Man can hide things for years because of conscience. Can any other created thing carry that weight within themselves?
Is man truely unique in creation?
The Bible says Let Us make Man in Our Image
US is the Trinity
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
