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A Civil Religious Debate


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Debate Score:37
Arguments:27
Total Votes:37
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 The Error of Faith (27)

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Bohemian(3860) pic



The Error of Faith

The fact that one can quite literally have faith in anything is a testament to it's sheer unreliability. We can have faith in both the true and untrue. We can have faith in the possible and impossible. For things we know to be true we can empirically prove they are true, and thus there is no need to hold them on faith. Faith seems to be reserved for that which not only hasn't been proven but things which are inherently unprovable. If we hold good reason to believe a truth then there will be evidence to supports it's truth. Rather faith is a good indicator of things in which we specifically don't have good reason to believe.

I would go so far as to say that faith actually is reliable-- reliable in detecting BS in the sense that if something is believed on faith then it is most probably BS.

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1 point

I think of faith a bit differently than you.

For instance I have no reason to be certain that the sun won't explode within the next few days, however I behave as if I were certain that it won't. This behavior in the absence of absolute certainty is what I think of when I think of faith. I'd love to read an argument that challenges the way I think about it.

Bohemian(3860) Disputed
2 points

This is the common example I get, that people have 'faith' that some event won't occur for which there is no reason to believe it would occur to begin with. I would argue that it doesn't require faith to believe that the sun won't explode tomorrow, because everyday that we have lived that the sun has remained intact is strong evidence that it won't explode tomorrow.

By faith I am referring to: strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence. I think you are referring to faith as simply trust in something unproven.

3 points

This is exactly the same outlook I have with faith. I'm glad there are more people who view it the same way.

2 points

This is the common example I get, that people have 'faith' that some event won't occur for which there is no reason to believe it would occur to begin with.

I wonder where are you having these sort of conversations where people describe faith this way. It seems an uncommon way to describe faith according to my experience.

I would argue that it doesn't require faith to believe that the sun won't explode tomorrow, because everyday that we have lived that the sun has remained intact is strong evidence that it won't explode tomorrow.

Indeed repeated observations strengthen faith. But not having observed something happening before isn't necessarily a reliable guarantee that something won't happen.

Since our ability to correctly interpret just what's within the scope of what we observe is imperfect, (not to mention what we do not observe) confidence enough to act on our understanding without being paralyzed by excessive uncertainty requires faith.

By faith I am referring to: strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence.

I don't believe that one can believe something without evidence. So faith by that definition is illogical IMO.

I think you are referring to faith as simply trust in something unproven.

Actually I don't notice a meaningful distinction between the proven and the trusted. Of course I am open to hear arguments to the contrary. Zombee made a pretty good go at it here: http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Proof_consists_merely_of_what_is_convincing . Perhaps you can take up where she left off. Especially if you notice points she brought up that I should better address.

Of course this thread is fine if you are up to the challenge.

1 point

I disagree. Faith is a word often mistaken as something it's not. Faith is the believing in something then acting on it. There is those who say they have faith in something but their actions say other wise, those people give those who truly believe and act on a bad name. These people who don't truly believe are the only reason why people like itself say such thing. I think there is true faith out there, u just have to look in the right places.

riahlize(1573) Disputed
1 point

I think you need to take a look at how faith is used in language.

When do people say you need to have faith?

When do you decide to tell yourself to have faith?

What things do you have faith in?

Raider(40) Disputed
1 point

U are right in one part thatnis people miss use the word faith. It like the word love we miss use it all the time and yet we all belieave in it. And I have faith in God besides that I don't need faith in much else.

I believe faith is far broader then how you describe it. I think it is impossible for a human being to exist without faith. If you have faith in nothing, what do you have? Nothing, to be honest. Just because something can be infallibly proven doesn't mean it doesn't require faith to believe that it's been infallibly proven.

It is apart of the human condition to doubt everything, and it is therefore apart of the human condition to have to have faith in everything.

I believe the absence of the need to have faith will mark both a horrific and angelic age for humanity... considering we will not be human when such a day comes.

riahlize(1573) Disputed
1 point

I would not agree at all with your use of the word "faith". But then again I may be using a different definition.

Before I dispute your argument any further, I would like you to provide a definition of the word "faith".

chatturgha(1631) Disputed
2 points

Life is fleeting and questionable. What's to stop people from assuming we're in the Matrix? It's not impossible. There's no proof that we're in the Matrix, but no proof that we're not in the Matrix.

Since life is so extraordinarily fragile within the minds of men, the only thing really keep our world together is sanity. The glue of sanity is faith, the ability to just believe in anything in general.

Since reality is perceptive, and only perceptive, even if something is infallibly proven, is it really infallibly proven? You have no way of proving that anything is infallibly proven. You have to believe, have faith in the idea, that is has been infallibly proven.

Perception of how anyone sees life is such a frail thing... that's why people who are insane tend to see outside the box! They think of apocalypses, demons, aliens, magic, etc. They start cults, found pseudo-sciences, and supposedly have mystical powers. Why does their perception allow them to do that?

Because it's fragile human perception.

The only thing that separates the sane from the insane is their ability to see what's important in life as opposed to 'ifs' and 'whats' and 'could(s)'. That's why we have to have faith to glue our views of life together. I have to have faith in my loved ones to act the way I except them to act, and I have to have faith in myself to do what I expect myself to do. I also have to have faith in gravity to keep working like it should and not let me float off into the clouds and meet my demise!

Simply put, my point is that nobody can simply be. They must believe that they can be. They must have faith that they can be. It's not a religious matter to me as it is to many people, especially atheists.

After all, death is just as much a choice as life. If anything, that should imply that we have to believe in being, not simply just be. Death is always a way out. If we didn't choose to be, why didn't we choose to not be?

1 point

Faith is having trust in something. Or beliving in something.

Bohemian(3860) Disputed
1 point

No. Belief, is when you believe in something or trust it's veracity. Faith is a particular kind of belief. Faith is belief without evidence or proof.

1 point

I agree.…………………… sorry for all the periods i had to make it 50 characters.